[UpNorth]

I use Chief Architect software for doing plans, and there has been a lot of discussion at the Chief users forum about how the software does not address staircase 3D rendering and 2D drawing as well as it is needed.

Chief Architect's 2D drafting capabilities are about equal to anything out there, so that the hard working designer or architect can detail out anything imaginable. That is not the issue. The complaint seems to center around the tools that are there to model the stuff in 3D.

I take the opposite view of those that say we need better tools for 3D, and it is because I am (guessing, actually) that much of the staircase building that takes place nowadays in big-ticket work, gets done with the architectural plans only showing some basics, and then the stairbuilder's art and capabilities take it from there.

So, tell me, if you are into doing expensive staircase work, what do the builder's plans show you? How interested are you in seeing that a 3D rendering shows things exactly as they are to be?

 

[Warren]

I have built many sets of stairs for many builders and seldom have any more than a 2d rendering on the floor plan of the print. Most times we are lucky if the stairs drawn can even be built that way and conform to code. Just show where they go and we'll take it from there.

 

[KTK]

I did a set of spirals one time-free standing. What a beotch. Worked out nice, thou. The underside was plastered.

 

[Kent Whitten]

I'm here to inform you and the rest of the architectural design community that it is not just the stairs that lack detail, it's the whole set of prints.

And when there is detail, it is sadly misguided in most cases.

Architects especially have that sense they know what's going on, but I have yet to see an architect here asking questions. I see Andy here and I respect the guy for hanging out and asking and contributing.

So to answer your question I personally would like to see you guys pull your weight and design something that actually works out in the field. I doubt that will happen. Yes, give me the design so I can attempt to create what's in your head.

 

[UpNorth]

Framerman, these pics are all from different architect portfolios, shown at their websites.

From the pics, I would say it is apparent that something got worked out. I cannot speak as to the difficulty of execution, but the final results look good.

 

[UpNorth]

Framerman and dakzaag, I think your criticism of architects is unfounded.

There are just as many architects doing excellent work as there are framers and staircase builders doing the same. And on the other side, there are schlocks in both professions.

This pic, clipped from the website of a Camden, Maine, archy, shows only a hint of the staircase, but from the looks of other things, at least SOMEONE knew what was going on!

Come back and tell us what you need to see on the prints, to do work like what I have shown here.

 

[MALCO.New.York]

DAMN!!!!


These picture have my Wee-Wee all Wiggly!!!


'Specially Warrens........Stairs that is!!

 

[JonM]

DAMN!!!!


These picture have my Wee-Wee all Wiggly!!!


'Specially Warrens........Stairs that is!!

Got Wood?...:w00t:

 

[neolitic]

Framerman and dakzaag, I think your criticism of architects is unfounded.

There are just as many architects doing excellent work as there are framers and staircase builders doing the same. And on the other side, there are schlocks in both professions.

This pic, clipped from the website of a Camden, Maine, archy, shows only a hint of the staircase, but from the looks of other things, at least SOMEONE knew what was going on!

Come back and tell us what you need to see on the prints, to do work like what I have shown here.

Can we see the details for
the invisible fasteners on the
valley cripple rafters?
That might be one example.

I'd bet that those stairs in your
examples came out well, more
in spite of the architect than
because of him.

 

[willworkforbeer]

I'd bet that those stairs in your
examples came out well, more
inspite of the architect than
because of him.

Exactly

 

[UpNorth]

You guys that are criticising architects sound like the ones who sat in the back of the classroom throwing spitballs, in 8th grade. Maybe not, maybe you dropped out after 7th.

I've shown you architect-designed work.

It's time for you to show us some work designed by you and executed by you, for which no archy or designer had an input.

No one inferred they were superior to you, those architects and designers. It takes details dreamed up by someone, and then excellent craftsmanship and innovation, to execute those designs that are unique, graceful, and pleasing. Sometimes the process is seamless, beginning to end, all the same person. Mostly it is not.

You can either toss some more spitballs, or post some photos of YOUR work, or tell us what you need on paper, to do staircases. I would prefer the adult response.

 

[willworkforbeer]

You guys that are criticising architects sound like the ones who sat in the back of the classroom throwing spitballs, in 8th grade. Maybe not, maybe you dropped out after 7th.

9th :clap:
Look around the site, I see tons of neat stuff built by craftsman, not architects.

 

[SelfContract]

Agree, Practice Makes Perfect! :thumbsup:

 

[neolitic]

You guys that are criticising architects sound like the ones who sat in the back of the classroom throwing spitballs, in 8th grade. Maybe not, maybe you dropped out after 7th.

I've shown you architect-designed work.

It's time for you to show us some work designed by you and executed by you, for which no archy or designer had an input.

No one inferred they were superior to you, those architects and designers. It takes details dreamed up by someone, and then excellent craftsmanship and innovation, to execute those designs that are unique, graceful, and pleasing. Sometimes the process is seamless, beginning to end, all the same person. Mostly it is not.

You can either toss some more spitballs, or post some photos of YOUR work, or tell us what you need on paper, to do staircases. I would prefer the adult response.

And you sound like the kid
who got stuffed in his locker
and never got over it.
Is this your campaign for
class president?

 

[willworkforbeer]

Its the ol' white collar vs bluecollar deal. His point is that carpenters are just a bunch of dumb hacks who need better directions.

 

[Framer53]

Hey guys, back off. I have known Gene for a while and he really means what he says. All he is looking for is some civil conversation about what we want from plans.

I do agree that most plans leave a lot to be desired, but, we have to work it out somehow!

 

[Gus Dering]

There was an archy on this job. We used his drawing to get the permit.

The rest was up to me and my main man Bob.

These stairs were drawn in 2 flights with a landing 90 degrees to the orientation they are now. Impossible to pull it off the way they were drawn.

I agree that there are good people and less than than good in all aspects of our business. I have been fortunate to work with some great archys. You may be one yourself. I don't have a beef with you nor do I want one.
Take the ribbing with a grain of salt. There are plenty of cases where a less than great archy has cost all of us a great deal of real money. And there lies the inevitable gruff welcoming to our circle.
Show us some of your work and give us a chance to see if you fit into the mix. You could benefit greatly from the feed back you are looking for. Hang in there, Sport.

 

[MALCO.New.York]

I agree that there are good people and less than than good in all aspects of our business. I have been fortunate to work with some great archys. You may be one yourself. I don't have a beef with you nor do I want one.
Take the ribbing with a grain of salt. There are plenty of cases where a less than great archy has cost all of us a great deal of real money. And there lies the inevitable gruff welcoming to our circle.

Show us some of your work and give us a chance to see if you fit into the mix. You could benefit greatly from the feed back you are looking for. Hang in there, Sport.

Well said "Mr. Master of Diplomacy"!!!

 

[Gus Dering]

One thing that springs to mind in answering your original question is accurate opening sizes on the floor framing page. Especially where there is a wall that sits at the edge of it.
We will always double check your work for head room conflicts but if you could show a cross section with all the pertinent info like, rise, run of the treads and anticipated head room at the end of the opening. To at least show us that you have given it it's due thought, would be great.

A 3d rendering would be helpful if the stairs are complicated in some way. Good way to show how you envision the handrail detailing. Which is always a point of confusion when there is no detailing on the drawing.

There are more points of interest if you are still playing with us.

 

[wallmaxx]

You guys that are criticising architects sound like the ones who sat in the back of the classroom throwing spitballs, in 8th grade. Maybe not, maybe you dropped out after 7th.

I've shown you architect-designed work.

It's time for you to show us some work designed by you and executed by you, for which no archy or designer had an input.

No one inferred they were superior to you, those architects and designers. It takes details dreamed up by someone, and then excellent craftsmanship and innovation, to execute those designs that are unique, graceful, and pleasing. Sometimes the process is seamless, beginning to end, all the same person. Mostly it is not.

You can either toss some more spitballs, or post some photos of YOUR work, or tell us what you need on paper, to do staircases. I would prefer the adult response.

I do alot of design build stuff. But mostly I take plans that a customer paid way too much money for, and I correct the errors and produce production quality drawings, 11x17 laminated. What I find mostly is that the architects are more conceptual and theoretical rather than practical.

Too often I see plans that show a 9' wall height at 9'...instead of 9'-1 1/8" for this region of the country. If it's not drawn to the exact material sizes, then I can not build it directly from the prints without some additional time spent on figuring out the exact numbers.

When I draw or redraw...I make everything exactly what it's size is in reality. Then I can over-dimension it and can pre-build as much of it off site as I want to...and it works.

On an apartment job recently, the architect and engineer were conflicted over the roof and the air gap between units. The foundation (parking garage) was already in place. Shrinking the rooms was not an option because of everything being so squeezed. So the air gap, after shearwall plywood and one sheet of fire rock and one sheet of noise paneling, it became 0".

The roof had no detail on how they wanted it built. I was told it had to look like the elevation, but it also had to incorporate all of the environmental considerations EV (no water in or concentrated flows) and had to be structural. The local truss guys wanted more for the trusses than I could do it stick framed. So, I have not had the most pleasant experience with the white collar crowd.