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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New guy to this forum and looking for some real world experience with a product my client is asking for. Who has worked with NobleSeal SIS underlayment for sound isolation? We're installing tile throughout the main floor and they're looking for some sound isolation in the lower level.

My questions are 1) does it work? 2) it says you can go directly over plywood subfloor, any experiences with that? they claim to have some crack isolation properties as well. stuff seems pretty thin to me and i'm a little hesitant to go directly over the plywood because you're supposed to glue this stuff down. so if you have any deflection at all, would be bad. i've got experience with ditra but this is a new one.
 

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First off, crack isolation is for concrete. Plywood doesn't crack all that much in my experience. Secondly, Noble pretty much owns the market in this type of stuff. They aren't just throwing out a knock off of someone else's stuff. CIS and SIS are tried and true products. Their pan liners are also the industry standard.

You aren't rolling dice when you use something like Noble. Their pedigree speaks for itself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
CCoffer, thanks for the reply but when I refer to crack isolation it's a property that nobleseal claims with their SIS for the tile that are installed on top of it...not the plywood sublfoor. i referenced the subfloor because normally you wouldn't intsall tile over wood without an underlayment that offers such a benefit. i've used ditra many times and just looking for someone that has some experience with nobleseal. thanks
 

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You have to have the right expectations. The thin sound insulating membranes are effective in reducing impact noise such as high heels tapping across a floor and in reducing the transmission of high-frequency sound (as long as you install them correctly, managing seams and edges according to manufacturer's instructions). IIC is tested over concrete slabs, STC I don't know. Thin membranes will have very little effect on bass noise, on structural noise such as bouncy joists, etc. You need to manage your customer's expectations.

Crack isolation? Sure, the same as any other thin membrane. But crack isolation won't deal with deflection, and I wouldn't expect crack isolation to be very meaningful over a properly-installed plywood floor.
 

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thanks for the reply but when I refer to crack isolation it's a property that nobleseal claims with their SIS for the tile that are installed on top of it...not the plywood sublfoor.

Why do I have to be the person to respond this idiocy? I gave everybody here a chance and nobody bit. What gives?

I thought it was hilarious, but didn't want to be mean.

cbr549, crack suppression membranes exist to keep cracks in the substrate from becoming cracks in the tile installed over it. Hence the term SUPPRESSION. They aren't a tile treatment. They're a substrate treatment. Also, grout sealer doesn't turn a tile installation into a waterproof membrane. Also, CBU doesn't make a floor any stiffer.

I could go on.
 

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You know whats really hilarious....The fact that you think you would need crack isolation for a plywood subfloor or that any professional might bite at that dumb ass comment! Who's the idiot?
You really are as dumb as you look...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
coffer, you're a great guy...appreciate the help. even if i misunderstand the product (just going off the direction given to me by my vendor) i turned to this site for a little direction. lucky for me someone of your caliber was the first to respond and you even had the decency to follow up again even though nobody asked you anything. keep up the good work. and hey, if you're ever in my neck of the woods look me up. be nice to discuss this further!
 

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SIS is a good product, but it's pricey. I've always thought that, over plywood, something like FloorMuffler would do about the same job for way less than half the price. I'm as superstitious as the next guy when it comes to tile, but even that Tavy Thin Skin stuff works. (even though it seems weird). I like CBU over plywood because it has a great track record. Most failures with CBU are because the guy either didn't tape the joints or they didn't thinset under.
 

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Another thing to consider about sound ratings is that they involve a particular sandwich of products. No isolation membrane is tested in a stand alone manner to get STC and IIC ratings. From what I learned when I used to sell competing products to dealers is that the most valuable metric is the delta rating. The Sound Transmission Class (STC) rating is the inside the room rating a product gets when it's part of a particular sandwich. The Impact Insulation Class (IIC) is what the people one floor down experience.

The cool thing about the delta rating is that it isolates the value of a particular membrane in whatever assembly it's in. The way they do it is install without and then install with and measure the decibel difference.
 

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Another thing to consider about sound ratings is that they involve a particular sandwich of products. No isolation membrane is tested in a stand alone manner to get STC and IIC ratings. From what I learned when I used to sell competing products to dealers is that the most valuable metric is the delta rating. The Sound Transmission Class (STC) rating is the inside the room rating a product gets when it's part of a particular sandwich. The Impact Insulation Class (IIC) is what the people one floor down experience.

The cool thing about the delta rating is that it isolates the value of a particular membrane in whatever assembly it's in. The way they do it is install without and then install with and measure the decibel difference.
Good comments. I also like the delta ratings, but not all authorities or private parties (condo associations) accept them. With the exception of throwing down a good IIC membrane to muffle shoe clacks and scrapes, most sound reduction efforts are ineffective unless done as part of a whole system.
 

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The multifamily people get sold on something by somebody and hang on to it like a dog to a bone. I like people in general, but the folks who manage high rise type condos tend to be a bunch of stupid friggen Nazis.
 

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The multifamily people get sold on something by somebody and hang on to it like a dog to a bone. I like people in general, but the folks who manage high rise type condos tend to be a bunch of stupid friggen Nazis.
I understand the feeling, but I've had good experiences with high-rise condos. With all the rules (acoustic and other materials, insurance, elevators, parking (or the complete lack of it)) a kitchen remodel or a new floor in a condo may cost twice as much as in an easier location.

As a result of the expense, there's a lot of deferred work in those buildings - lots and lots of 40-year-old kitchens that would have been remodeled long before in another location. So you just have to price for profitability, and be patient. One benefit is that having gotten some experience in a building it becomes easier to quote and to execute the work - you know where the bodies are hidden. I may give a ballpark number in an initial phone call, get disbelief from the homeowner, then get a call 6 months or a year later after a couple of failures with contractors who couldn't do the job for one reason or another.

As far as hanging on to a rule like a dog on to a bone - yes, definitely. Big buildings have books of rules, and they don't change very easily. Sometimes owners complain, but the administrative people in those developments work under the of the board and the other owners.
 

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I've had good experiences too. But that's because I haven't been in the position of trying to reason with someone who only knows what's in their book. The same can be said of local building codes. There are plenty of places where you can't use a Schluter drain because there's nothing in the local code specifically authorizing it. That's actually something Schluter TMs have to do as part of there job sometimes is arrange meetings with local muckity mucks and explain why the best shower drain on the market shouldn't be banned.

"Strictly by the book" is the work of Satan.
 

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Sono Grip is the product weve used in condos where it is bylaw to use soundproofing. Used it many times and it is your adhesive (mortar) with no issues at all
 

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