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Doer of Many Things!!!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone else share my opinion that Sikkens isn't worth the money you put in it anymore? I've had no end of complaints out of SRD. The color doesn't seem to last more than a year or so even in moderate sunlight. I thought perhaps our customers just weren't preping correctly but last year I tried it myself on a section of my grandmother's deck. The rest of the deck was coated with Glidden Endurace S/T Oil, which I just happen to still have at the store, since we no longer deal with Glidden. One year later and there is barely any color left to the SRD and the Glidden looks as good as the day it was applied. Since Sikkens changed their formulation on the DEK/DEK Base to the new DEK Finish we've been receiving far more complaints about peeling problems as well. At least their solid stains still seem to be as good as ever.
 

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...jammin
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Nope
Not on this end, no complaints, sorry
 

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Nope complaints on SRD here either. I like the fact that is fades out in a couple of years, no build up easy prep to apply a maintenance coat. I still tell my customers its best to coat a deck once a yr but definitively with in 24 months. I agree on DEK though, being that has a satin finish and to leaves more of a film I don't like to use it on decks floors.

BTW the way they restricted formula on the west coast and I believe in NE so the stuff here in the midwest might be different then what your using.
 

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Doer of Many Things!!!
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I can see the advantage to SRD fading when you want to put another coat on. I never thought of it that way before. I still think it loses its looks too quickly. Still seems to protect just fine though. I always thought it may be due to the translucent pigments they use not holding up in a penetrating product with less binder like SRD. We never had any complaints out of DEK products in the past which use the same pigments. Now that the DEK finish went high solids I don't think it has enough binder to glue it down well. Too many complains of peeling from people that have used the older products for decades with no issues what so ever. I'm in middle Virginia, so VOC laws aren't upon us just yet, but they are getting closer every year. Northern Virginia is already subject to them and I hear in Maryland you can't get hardly any oil product in containers larger than quarts. That's why we started dealing with Davis Paints recently. Their oil paints have not been reworked for VOC. They just pay a fee for each gram over regulation and end up with a better product at about $10 a gallon less than I can sell Pratt and Lambert for. It's only a matter of time before that all changes though.
 

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Doer of Many Things!!!
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Believe me, I know all about the proper prep being an issue. We have one painter who buys everything from us. It seems like every exterior job he does, be it stain or paint, has some kind of problem. And of course it's always the product at fault. It couldn't be 30 layers of paint peeling off under the one he just put on, or it couldn't be the chalk and 40 degree weather with dew that caused that DTM to peel. No way just hosing off the deck and not getting all the bleach off could possibly cause that Rubbol to peel. And yes 9 gallons of stain sounds fine for a small storage building. No way is that too much.
 

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Sikens is junk. Best stain I've used is either Flood or Para Rain Coat.

Did a rough sawn siding in the Rain Coat 10 yrs ago and it's still there. It soaks in and contains wax. Nothing to peel.

Did a home with board and batten a year ago in the Flood and really liked it, but can't comment on longevity.
 

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Knowledgeable Tinter!
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Hmmmmmm....

We go thru a ton of Sikkens up here....no complaints.

We DO make da^^n sure what the prep-status is; what kind of wood it is; what products (if known) are on it now; how high off the ground it is; what side of the house; have Behr-silicones, or Thompsons (with wax) Water-seal been used, etc......

If certain previous products have been used, I don't sell them ANY stain unless it's sanded-off. OR...we'll tell-'em directly, "Here's what'll happen...".
We're kind of hard-a$$es up here in the frozen North, when we're talking deck-stains with customers.

I stain my 15y/o Redwood deck every 3rd year. West exposure, NO shade, 6' off the ground.
>>> Nothin' but Sikkens SRD #089 Redwood.
>>> I've sanded the deck-floor twice in that time...still looks damn-near new.

I used DEK-Finish, #045 Mahogany on an old Cedar swing-bench my Wife's Dad made.
* Had to sand it down good, and removed all dust.
* 2 coats of the DF, ON ALL SIDES per instructions for an exterior film-forming product, a day apart, and reassembled.
* Purposely left it out 2 winters now. Still looks NEW.
* ....and we're talkin' temps from -30 to almost 100 in the same year up here....

Sikkens? Keeps gettin' more popular up here anyway....

Faron
 

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Long Island Roof Washers
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This is the reply I got from the Sikkend Rep. I did all the prep work. One coat as directed. He is saying it was 2 year old stain. Not sure what thats about. I can tell you It took a week to dry in the summer This is what he said.


Thank you again for providing all the information requested and for your patience in this process. To help explain what happened, Cetol SRD Translucent Finish is a penetrating finish that primarily protects the wood from within the wood. In this case there was enough of a buildup of the product on top of the wood that the product was able to peel. From reviewing the information presented, you have followed recommendations which would normally have eliminated this issue. As the product coverage ratio was followed, the thing that stands out, that could’ve caused a surface build up by limiting penetration of the product, is mill glaze. Mill glaze is present on smooth cut new wood, due to the way it is processed. The smoothness of the surface is basically partially collapsed wood pores that have the wood’s natural oils drawn towards the surface due to the heat generated in processing the wood. Mill Glaze can be removed through mechanically sanding with 60-80 grit sand paper or by adequate agitation with mild striping agents or chemicals like TSP. As there are no reports of issues with this batch of Cetol SRD that was manufactured two years ago, the issue is more than likely due to limited penetration of the product leading to the excess product that dried on top of the wood.
In going forward, as you are a good customer of ours I would like to offer you the option of reimbursement of the money spent for the Cetol SRD or replacement of the product. To remedy the peeling issue, the product can be allowed to weather off and out of the wood or it can be more quickly removed by chemically stripping the finish or by sanding it off and out of the wood. Another coat of Cetol SRD or any other penetrating finish should only be applied when there is adequate room for it inside the wood. To confirm that the wood is ready for another application, a water absorbance test can be done. To do this, place some water on the surface of the wood (about the size of a quarter) in several places. If the water is absorbed into the wood in 60 seconds, the wood is porous enough to accept another application. If it does not absorb the water in this time, there is still product inside the wood that needs to be removed or allowed to weather out. Lastly, when brushing or back brushing the product, any of the product that does not penetrate into the wood within fifteen minutes of it being applied must be brushed off the surface of the wood. This will help in avoiding a surface build up. Please let me know which of the options presented you prefer and, if you have any additional questions feel free to contact me with them.

I told him no deal Find another option
 

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Long Island Roof Washers
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New Reply from Sikkens

Thank you for responding back to explain your thoughts as to the cause of the issue. To clarify my e-mail to you below, Cetol SRD, like any other penetrating finish needs to be inside the wood to perform as intended. The coverage rate for this product is for wood that has been adequately prepared. In this case either a brush not stiff enough to remove mill glaze was used or the correct amount of agitation was not applied during preparation to remove the mill glaze. This would translate to less product being able to penetrate than the standard coverage rate. If the excess product that had been applied and could not penetrate was brushed from the surface the buildup would not have been thick enough to peel. This is the reason the product on top of the wood is peeling. If this was an actual product issue it would have happened when any of the other several hundred gallons of the same batch were used over the last two years. The offer of the option of reimbursement of the money spent for the Cetol SRD or replacement of the product still stands as we want to help in this unfortunate situation.

This is a picture of the finish. Its 8 month old on a new cedar deck
 

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To the person above who stated they like to use Flood as their product choice - you are aware that Sikkens owns the Flood company and therefore makes the product?
I'm thoroughly disgusted with Sikkens and the SRD product! It is a joke! A very expensive joke!
Been doing this for years - proper prep work is always the main focus. Applied the SRD to properly prepared surface last year and now you can barely tell anything was applied at all. It fades, peels, flakes and frankly looks terrible.
Ever since the formula had to be changed for VOC purposes you can forget about Sikkens being the same!
They need to bring back Cetol 1 and Cetol 2. Those products held up for at least seven years with little maintaining. Of course that will never happen because all the good "STUFF" has been taken out. The government cracks down each year it seems and before you know it we'll be back to making our own paints out of milk!
I'm seriously thinking about using transmission oil mixed with motor oil until I get the achieved shade I'm looking to apply. It isn't for a deck - it is for a garage. What do you think??????
 

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Still have all my fingers
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I agree with the Sikkens response about "mill glaze" aka "planer crush". My house is fully log sided and I did some research about finishing it and found that mill glaze was a big problem. I sanded all my siding front and back before applying 2 coats of Cetol 1 front and back. I could totally see the mill glaze as I was sanding and it's not surprsing to me that without sanding the finish wouldn't adhere.

I installed the siding and put one more coat of Cetol 1 on and have only had to put one maintenace coat (also of Cetol 1)on in the past 8 years. I think the Cetol 23 is a rip off so I don't use it. There are a ton of log sided homes in my area and almost without exception they look like crap after a few years regardless of what brand of finish is applied. I think it's caused by mill glaze preventing the finish from soaking in. Just my .02
 

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Doer of Many Things!!!
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I agree that mill glaze can indeed be an issue. Sikken's prep instructions clearly state to sand and wash with a TSP/Bleach solution. Most people don't do the sanding, which is understandable. Pressure washing with the correct solution is usually adequate on a weathered deck, but sometimes sanding has to be done.

Just a little FYI, Cetol 123+ is still on my price list and available for order. It's never been discontinued to my knowledge. The thing is, that Sikkens suckered all of us dealers into replacing it with Log and Siding by making us think it was being discontinued like the Dek/Dek Base products were. So you won't find too many places that still carry 123+.

Also, there is now a new waterborne SRD product available. We aren't touching it until we absolutely have to. We won't be suckered in again. Honestly, I think the VOC regulations are at the heart of most of Sikken's problems.
 

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Doer of Many Things!!!
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
No film forming finish is going to last on a deck period.
It will if there is a proper coating on all sides of the boards and good ventilation, all of which Sikkens covers in the application guide. However, most people either don't read the ventilation part or can't/won't do a 6 sided seal on all boards because of cost or inaccessibility of an existing deck.
 
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