[johnheritage]

Okay, this is a home based question, but not many homeowners have 440i's or can come close to helping me out with it and some of you seem to really know airless well. Tried asking elsewhere, no help.

I'm the UK, and our 1920's house has some rough surface finishes inside and out. I'm going to board and plaster the worst, but was interested in priming with a high build paint I can shoot with the 440i to try and level off imperfecions.

I've already read on here that for elasto and block fillers, it's better to run something heavier duty. I'm wondering if that's mainly to keep the deposition rate high or because the 440i can't get it out the tip.

I don't mind if it takes a while to lay it down, just so long as I'm not having to brush it on anymore. And I obviously don't want to toast my precious 440i. I spent my entire teens repainting this place over and over with brushes and rollers and have a kind of brush phobia now.

Thanks for any help with this!

 

[Workaholic]

A 440i will not be able to pump it because the material is to thick. To pump elasto and block fillers the smallest pump size I recommend would be a Graco 795 or a titan 840. Preferable something bigger like a graco 1095.

 

[johnheritage]

Thanks WA, I've seen some of your other posts and am definitly greatful for helping on those and this.

I don't get why the pump wouldn't be able to pump it. The discharge pressure of all the pumps, 440i included, is around 3200 / 3300psi. Is it that it's so much work for the motor that it overheats? I'd have thought the ability to overcome the viscosity would be set by pressure.

Not trying to argue with you, you obviously have tons more experience than me, just curious to understand them better.

Even the 440i costs a FORTUNE in the UK. I was being quote 1400 POUNDS from the 'genuine importer'. Titan has a lock down on the resellers to force the sale prices in the UK. Anything from anyone else is not gauranteed and lacks a CE certification (certificate europe, a standard for safety that industrial users will need for insurance etc). 1400 pounds is over 2k in $. So I'll have to make do with lighter systems, I really can't afford the bigger models at those prices.

I was originally going to get one of the Wagner Paintpro or whatever they're called $300 things. I'm glad I didn't. While the 440i isn't an industrial beast, it sure looks well built enough for my kind of use. I have the LX80 2 gun. Is it worth upgrading it if I'm not doing commercial levels of spraying at the moment?

 

[vandyandsons]

don't try it or you'll be replacing your pump. the high build materials will overwhelm the pumps inner components.
your 440 can push certain materials at around 3000psi, but it cannot maintain that for long on even the manufacturers recommended materials. 440's are great for lighter use only.
i own a 440 and it struggles to push even the heavier latex paints.
a bigger pump that is rated for high builds can push and maintain those materials at that 3000 psi all day long. a weaker pump may give you an initial burst at 3000 psi but will quickly fizzle out.
here in the states we have equipment rental stores. even some larger home improvement stores rent out spray equipment. i don't know if this is an option for you in the UK.

see if you can get a Graco Mark IV, Mark V, 1595, or some monster gas pump.

keep your 440 fresh for stains, varnishes, appropriately reduced latex and oil products.:thumbsup:

 

[Sir Mixalot]

I wouldn't use your 440i with that type of material. Is there somewhere around you that rents airless sprayers?

 

[johnheritage]

Rental is an option, but I think I'll just try avoiding the higher builds. I don't NEED to shoot them, I thought it might be good if the 440i would shoot it.

Should I thin glosses? I need to paint the garden walls now I've just finished the backbreaking task of rendering them. I was planning to use a trade gloss for light reflection and wear. Hopefully it'll go through at the can thickness, I want a good coat on there.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[johnheritage]

Actually, I should make that a more general question, how do you guys decide on when it needs thinning? Do you try shooting it and if it needs to be right up on the pressure, it's took thick? Or do any of you use those viscosity measuring cups or cones? You know, hole in the bottom, time how long it takes to empty.

 

[4thGeneration]

Even with your screens out you would burn up the motor.

 

[Workaholic]

Actually, I should make that a more general question, how do you guys decide on when it needs thinning? Do you try shooting it and if it needs to be right up on the pressure, it's took thick? Or do any of you use those viscosity measuring cups or cones? You know, hole in the bottom, time how long it takes to empty.

I have various sized rigs for different uses. If I only had a smaller rig and was worried about the material being to thick then the tests as you mentioned are useful. Some hevier material as you mentioned are not really suppose to be thinned for them to work properly. If we are just talking about some heavily bodied latex or oil then i would thin it just to the point of working for your pump.
I used to spray industrial enamel for trim paint with no thinning just a splash of Japan drier or some naptha.

 

[410tip]

I've shot over 100 gallons of peelbond out of my 440, should I use my bigger pumps, or is peelbond ok for a smaller pump? Never really given it much thought......Thanks

 

[MZ-HANDYMAN]

Q's for the experts... Just thinking outside the box.


What about a .025 to a .039 tip would this still burn up the airless?
Would an airless texture gun work? (Kind of expensive though)
Maybe a hopper with a compressor using the smallest tip? You're still spraying, just not with the airless.

Any thoughts?

MZ-HANDYMAN

 

[ModernStyle]

Those tips are to big, you would never get an even spray pattern using tips that big on a small rig, and you would stress the hell out of your machine trying.
A hopper gun wont make a pattern at all, it will just blow the stuff everywhere, it isnt designed to do much more then spit various sizes of chunks of material.
A large airless is really the only option with thicker materials, if there was an easier way we would have all been doing it by now and saved the $3000 they want for a 1095

 

[MZ-HANDYMAN]

Maybe a DSP-2100? (grin)

 

[ModernStyle]

Nope, AmSpray is not the best maker of sprayers, you would do well not to try something too thick in it. If you use it for small projects like exterior latex and stains and things like that then you will probably be alright. If you try to run thick stuff through it then you will burn up your motor and packings and be left with nothing. The keys to keeping your sprayers running properly is maintenance and undertanding your sprayers limits. Use it for what it can do and you will get alot more out of it then if you try to make it do what it cant.

 

[NCPaint1]

Rule of thumb, take your lower check ball out and set it on the material you want to spray....if it sinks its ok. If it floats, get a bigger pump. General rule for elastomerics and block fill....1GPM or bigger. Some smaller pumps will spray, yes it works them hard, no it wont kill it or burn it up. Most electric motors are equipped with a thermal shut off. If the motor gets too hot it shuts down till it cools. Chances are you wont get that far because you'll blow a fuse first, or trip a breaker.

Also, it only takes around 1000psi to atomize paint, so running full 3000 psi is only wasting material and fogging everything.

Best Pumps out there by far are Airlessco, I sell Airlessco, Titan/Speeflo, ASM ( Graco ). The Airlessco is by far the most bang for the buck. You can get an Airlessco 460 that will do just about whatever you want it to. Interior/exterior, occasional dryfall, and block fill, down to laquers and varnishes....great pump, with adjustable packings, DC motor, and 100psi or less dead band.

 

[Workaholic]

Rule of thumb, take your lower check ball out and set it on the material you want to spray....if it sinks its ok. If it floats, get a bigger pump.

This is a good idea and i would only like to add that instead of removing your ball just save a few from your last few packings and you can do this test without fussing with your rig. :thumbsup:

 

[NCPaint1]

This is a good idea and i would only like to add that instead of removing your ball just save a few from your last few packings and you can do this test without fussing with your rig. :thumbsup:

Yep, only problem is when you lose them. I cant picture a painter comin in my shop and saying " I seem to have misplaced my balls ":w00t:

 

[Workaholic]

:laughing: only the ones that already left them with their wife.

 

[johnheritage]

Just checked back and realized so many more replies had been posted, thanks for that, it's an excellent hep! From people who obviously know what they're talking about. The ball trick is neat, thanks for that idea in particular; definitely help a noob get used to the feel of when to thin. What's the dead band you mentioned NC? The pressure needed to get the paint through the drop of the hose and gun?

***** to see the Airless is so highly rated, but hey, the 440i has to kick the ass of the Wagner Project whatever thing I was originally looking at. First time I turned the 440i on I nearly loaded my pants knowing what pressures it was capable of, hearing it squeak away as it charged up. I've been messing with oxy/acetylene cylinders and hydraulic hoses since I was about 13 but, as with electricity (which I've also been messing with since then), I always have a sense that there's a silent danger there. Waiting... I saw an episode of Myth Busters were one of them managed to burst a high pressure hose with his face next to it. Luckily, it wasn't long enough to whip him to the floor. I've read autopsies from industrial accidents involving hydraulic hoses and pressure washers.

 

[NCPaint1]

Dead Band = pressure drop until motor turns on to regenerate. Most pumps around a 400psi drop is acceptable for their tolerances. Airlessco wont accept anything over a 100psi drop. Keep in mind to that for every 50' hose you run you can expect a 100psi drop at the gun, same holds true for every 10' up you go.

I really like the Airlessco's because of versatility and reliability. They waaaaaaaay out perform what their ratings are, and the way the pumps are st up, it almost completely eliminates the need for an HVLP sprayer.

*** they're spendy, but you get what you pay for ***