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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am sure this has been gone over before but I cant seem to find what I am looking for under the search function:


What is a good pay rate/ compensation, for a part time salesman/ presuming there is such a thing.
I am looking for someone to give qualified leads to, to go in, measure, present, sell the job.
I would prefer paying based on the sale.
 

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This was just asked over at ... err never mind... Here is what I said:

I too love the sale but I don't have enough time in my day for all the hats I have to wear and I will never grow as big as I want to be if I am the only salesman. I currently have two salesmen and will probably hire another next year.

Hiring of a salesman has two schools of thought. I feel that hiring an unseasons sales person that has strong product knowledge and the right personality then training them how to sell your way is the best way to go... I also feel that this method takes alot of resources and isn't the best method for a small compamy. Instead I feel a small company, such as my own, should hire seasoned sales people who need very little hand holding.

I have hired two ex-storm chasers to amp up my sales.

Here are the pages you requested from my corporate manual: http://www.reliableamerican.us/corporate/manual/sales-rep-job-duties.htm
http://www.reliableamerican.us/corporate/manual/sales-rep-compensation.htm
http://www.reliableamerican.us/corporate/manual/sales-dresscode.htm
 

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Damn Grumpy if you want some hungry, hungry big hitters to make you big money, you might want to change the pay scale, reduce the commision on the low end - Make them starve if they are just average, who needs em? But really jack it up on the high end - let them get rich while making you some hay too.

Magic happens when you find that guy that no matter what the quota is, he finds a way to make it, because the rewards are so handsome at the top level that doing anything else sucks. Nothing better than when a salesman needs just one more deal at the end of the month to jump to the next level and put and extra $10,000 in his pocket - he will find that deal!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Besides the obivous time constraints with wearing the sales hat, ( I like the sale) but my personal feelings are getting in the way of things. I mentioned in another post that I feel most people I feel are inconsiderate in regard to my time, distance and effort I put forth. Besides not returning phone calls.
Maybe Im better off getting a rough idea of the size, spitting out some high number that I know will more than cover the cost and not trying to give an accurate price with some education. Just venting a little.
 

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Be careful, there are a ton of sales people who think $47,000 a year is awesome money. Most salespeople have a predetermined income they want in their heads before they ever take your job, since they will rarely produce more than 10% more or less than that target if that number happens to be your low end of the pay plan, guess where they always will be coming in at? That's what keeps lazy salesman at a job for years and years.

A pay plan that forces a salesman to be rich or be broke will weed out the mediocrity for you and attract the stars. The other side of that is then you have to figure out how to get your salesman to spend all that money so they keep needing more. - why do you think cocaine habits and top sales people went hand in hand? The more cocaine they snorted the more money they needed, the more successful they were at selling the more money they had for blow, vicious circle, but the company employeeing them loved the production these guys produced.

When I was in sales and looking at a new job my attention was always on the upper limits of the pay plan, I was always more concerned with how my salesmanager was going to limit my upper potential, I gave two craps about a fall back position if I had a bad month or two, because when you are pulling down the big money in your good months who cares about a bad one or two.

- there is no purer form of performance/reward compensation then sales. If you want a raise you don't have to go ask the boss for one, all you have to do is go out and perform at a higher level and you get your raise. You want to attract the guys who understand that. :)
 

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I ask all my salesmen what they want to make a year during the interview. When they are veterans they know what things costs and it gives me a good idea of what they are shooting for. While this isn't a determining factor when I hire someone it does carry some weight.

Your talking about a more agressive pay plan, do you have any examples other than paying based on profit?
 

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Hmm, examples not based on profit. Man there are so many that come to mind where would I start? You're talking about pay plans based on stuff like volume of sales, number of sold jobs sold, things like that? Hell, you could even base it on units, units being squares sold if you wanted to. If you give me more time and get more specific I could probably dig something up. You are doing it on tiers which is good, your basic instincts are to motivate towards more production, which is good. That's all good. I would just suggest you look at see how you can use the pay plan itself to motivate your staff to have to be agressive or they don't make squat.

Typically you can apply a retroactive pay plan if it is on units, you can do the same for profits too I suppose. Basically you have to set it up based on your ideas of what you expect.

For example - "these are going to be way off, I don't have any idea about the real numbers but just look at the idea"

Lets say the least productive a person can be and still be employed with you is selling 100 squares a month. Using a 6 month average as a sliding scale. Drops below that over a 6 month period he has to go.

So 100 would be the least somebody could do.

Lets say you would like to see them do 300, that would be your average salesman type productivity.

Up to 400 and you would be very happy. Anything about 400 and you are letting the guy see naked pictures of your wife you like him so much.

So a simple version of the pay plan could roughly be

- 150 minimum squares a month @ $5 a square (notice how 100 is your minimum, but you set the minimum @ 150) - dude would be making $750.00 - poverty!!!! He will gas himself, you will never have to fire the guy, he will do it for you- remember this is on a 6 month scale so there is always time for him to be taught and improved, but if he can't get better he will go away naturally.

- up to 300 squares a month @ $10 each - this is the average, dude sells 250 squares, he makes $2500 that month, thats 30k a year. not so great pay, but he is selling you 3000 squares a year, you can certainly keep him around being average and paying him 30,000 a year. There is always the chance he can become a star, once he has a baby or two, or buys a bigger house or something, he will become more motivated.

450 squares a month or more @ $20 a square - (notice how the production only jumps 66% but the pay jumps 100%, that's because the average guys are supplimenting your payroll to pay the stars -thats the secret a not as big or a proportional jump in production yields big jumps in pay!) - your dude does 475 squares hes getting $9500 bucks that month, hes on track to make 114,000 that year and he's selling you 5700 squares a year! See how juicy it is to become a star? Double the $$$$$$$$$$. Now you gotta throw in some more perks, to make them compete against each other at this level. You get 2 stars at this level and its time to get one to the superstar level by making them compete against each other. That's when you do the contest and stuff like that with a qualifier only the guys with the 6 month average in the 400 or above qualify. Offer up a juicy enough prize and watch one of your guys do 600 squares that month and the other guy do 550!

That kind of stuff makes you some big cash, it trickles down all through your sales force. The super star is kicking it in Vegas and the shlump doing 125 squares a month see what the potential is, maybe he gets motivated and does 250 squares the next month. The guys in the middle try to get to the top level, and the guy who came in second place is still happy because he didn't win the trip to Vegas, but he still took home the biggest pay check he ever has that year.

It's a win/win/win all the way around for everybody - especially for you.

There is tons of this stuff you can do. A really smart guys uses the pay plan for manipulating his employees.

When do most sales guys quit in the roofing business? Maybe in winter when things get slow. Lets say it is Dec and Jan when you lose sales people. Manipulate them. Put into your pay plan a bonus program. For every square sold you take $0.25 from them and you match it with $0.75, this goes into a Christmas fund, a guy sells 3000 squares he has $3000 in his Christmas fund. He gets 1/3 paid to him as a Christmas bonus check on December 15th, the other 2/3 gets paid to him on April 1st. In the pay plan it says anybody who quits before April 1st forfeits the company paid part of their bonus.

What this does - as things suck going into November and December he thinks about quitting, but then again he has the bonus check coming for $3000 (you got to figure out the proper amounts that will work in your situation), so he stick around till at least December 15 to get his $1000 of it, it pays for his christmas presents, all is good with his family even though he isn't making as much money as he was during the summer. Jan, comes, things still suck, hes thinking about taking a job working at sears, but if he quits he loses the $2000 remaining bonus. He decides he will stick around till at least April so he gets that money, then he will quit.

April comes and things are picking up, he gets his bonus just as his paychecks are starting to rise again, "Oh well, I'm starting to make money again, screw sears, the selling season starts next month, I'm not going anywhere!"

What you did was cut your attrition rate of good sales people lost because they are poor money managers and don't have the will power to set aside for a rainy day, you kept him there during the slow season and now he isn't going anywhere and you don't have to hire a new guy and get him up to speed.

I got lost more of this crap, but...

This is too much work, this is giving me a headache, time for a cock tail and some dinner.
 

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I pay my "area manager" who does sales, scheduling, and customer relations 22% of the estimated cost of the job minus materials.

Let the Nathan bashing being ;)
 

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Mike thanks for the feedback. I will have to read that more indepth when I have more time (like the winter). For now I will exercise the "if it aint broke don't fix it" policy since it seems to be working so far.

I am all for motivating my employees to be more productive but I also do not want to take advantage of them or be considered a low ball employer.
 

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Grumpy said:
Mike thanks for the feedback. I will have to read that more indepth when I have more time (like the winter). For now I will exercise the "if it aint broke don't fix it" policy since it seems to be working so far.

I am all for motivating my employees to be more productive but I also do not want to take advantage of them or be considered a low ball employer.
You better read that all again, a low ball employer sets unattainable sales quotas while dangling the possibility of making a great deal of money to a salesperson, that has nothing to do with anything I said. I would hope you would be of the mind to pay somebody for their performance.
 

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Ol'#2 has a base+comm.+ quota for regular business. It's split into equipment sales and installation, they are at different rates, say 5% for equip. and 3% for install if she is below quota. If she exceeds quota, it jumps to 9 and 5%.
You're going to have to figure out how all of this works for yourself because I'm not that interested but there is sound reasoning behind it. Her boss is the CFO for the parent company and pulled her company out of a serious nosedive in less than a year. No doubt he knows his stuff.
 

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Grumpy said:
The thing is most companies doing what I do in my area pay a flat 10% so I am already steps ahead of the game.
I have no doubt that you are, but I also know you have big plans, goals and dreams. To reach them you need to be like Lance Armstrong and be way out ahead of the competition, there might be another Grumpy sitting at a roofing company somewhere just like you were 2 years ago thinking there might be a better way...
 

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red_cedar said:
I am sure this has been gone over before but I cant seem to find what I am looking for under the search function:


What is a good pay rate/ compensation, for a part time salesman/ presuming there is such a thing.
I am looking for someone to give qualified leads to, to go in, measure, present, sell the job.
I would prefer paying based on the sale.
Red Cedar,

If you are asking about residential sales and selling not bidding the industry average is 10%. If the job is just bidding at competitive prices the compensation is typically a salary or hourly. A salesperson, not a bidder, is an individual that can present and differentiate your company over the competition and win the project regardless the price. A professional salesperson selling high quality roofing is often 30-100% higher than a contractor bidding at the local going rate (going out of business rate.) These individuals typically sell more than $1 million and earn over $100,000.

Hope this helps….Richard Kaller
 
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