Was the "indented thing" the ferrule? I leave the ferrule and nut, and use them on the new valve.

 

Once "compression" has been made, your not supposed to re-use the ferrule. You can get way with it sometimes if installed correctly the first time around and wasn't over tightened, but should be viewed as bad practice.

 

My only question for you Steve is why after the effort of sweating on an extension, why didn't you just sweat a valve on?

 

Well, the short-but-humbling answer is that I'm a plumbing newbie and didn't think of it. Which is why I figured I'd check with the experts. :laughing:

So it sounds like a better option would have been to sweat on a valve, too?

In that case, would it have looked like this:
1. cut off "damaged" portion of copper stub out (as I did)
2. Sweat valve onto new stub out (do this in the garage, rather than in the cramped space under the toilet)
3. Sweat coupler onto new stub & valve combo (also done in the garage)
4. Sweat coupler/stub/valve combo onto stub out under toilet.

Is that what I should have done?

Thanks!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces

 

Hi guys,

Just to clarify: the indented rings in the copper stub-out were the depressions left by each side of the old compression sleeve/ferrule.

I removed the old ferrule like this:

https://cdn2.tmbi.com/TFH/Step-By-Step/display/FH15OCT_SHUTOF_08.jpg

and the depressions were like the one shown here (only one is visible in the photo):

https://cdn2.tmbi.com/TFH/Step-By-Step/display/FH15OCT_SHUTOF_10.jpg

I didn't want to slide a Shark-Bite-style (i.e. push-to-connect) fitting over the two "indent rings", so I cut off this portion of the copper stub-out and finished the repair as described previously.

Hopefully that clears things up. Let me know, if not.


Thanks for the help!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces

 

Next time leave the ferrule and nut.

Point take, SuperSeal (but it usually is fine).

 

Here's a few...

 

I like threading nipples as well :w00t: ...still superior to any sharkchit fitting.
Works on the same premise as using a drop ell for a showerhead or HH body spray.

 

Nice. Thanks for the visual. I really appreciate it.

So regarding my remaining questions:
1. Is there a code requirement as to how far the valve or stub can stick out?
2. If sweating on a valve like the pictures in the previous post, would you go right over the old stub, indents/depressions and all? Or would you cut off the "damaged" portion of the stub before sweating on the valve?

And I guess a third question would be this:

3. Would a REAL plumber have just put on a new compression valve rather than sweating anything? If so, would you just re-use the ferrule? (Ignore the latter question if it'll stir up a hornets nest. :laughing

Thanks guys!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces

 

Would a REAL plumber have just put on a new compression valve rather than sweating anything? If so, would you just re-use the ferrule?

I'm not buying the sweating on a valve. Seems very impractical to me. If that was the way to go that's the way they'd be when new and I have as of yet to see it. Every valve I've seen has been threaded. I haven't seen every home obviously but it wouldn't be the norm around here. I've replaced all mine with no issues.

 

Wow, Superseal - that looks way nicer than what I ended up with!

Steve
Simply Renewed Spaces

 

There are a zillion ways to skin a cat, and all will out last the crappy flex line that goes to the toilet.

 

But there's the standard method that I've seen 100% of the time so far. Installed many in new home construction in the 80s. Braided flex lines are also the norm here.

 

Unless it's pretty old all they use is compression here. Judging by the age of things I've worked on I would say that they started with threaded, then sweat, and now compression. When I replace a compression valve I usually replace the nut and sleeve. 90% of the time I'm replacing the cabinet and I want the hole to be pipe-sized, not nut-sized.

Edit: I do think it's interesting how different methods trend in different parts of the country.

 

By threaded I mean a compression ring with a threaded nut. I've never seen a valve threaded directly to a pipe in a home for kitchen or bath angle stops. Water heaters, yes.

 

Second picture in Post #11.

 

I use the old ferrel and compression nut, never a problem.

Braided lines are the norm in CO. ( at least where I am)

 

If you run into one around here it is best to back out the room slowly. If you look at it wrong it's likely to break off at the threads.

 

All you people and plumbers using one-quarter turn shut off valves are off your rockers.

You cannot repair a 1/2 turn valve when it leaks. You have to remove the valve and toss it in the trash. You can repair conventional washer-type valves and you can replace every part without having to remove the body.

On 1/4 turn valves there is no packing nut that can be tightened to stop the step from leaking. The valves have a tiny O-ring on the stem. All rubber deteriorates. Inevitably, the O-ring leaks and it causes damage to the cabinets, floors, walls and results in a $50,000 mold remediation project. All this damage over a $5 valve.

I just went to a job last week where a 1/4 turn valve leaked. The water devastated the kitchen cabinet and it destroyed and discolored a real marble-tiled floor.

Conventional washer-type angle stops have large packing nut gaskets and I have never seen one leak. Even if the packing nut is loose the stem will not leak when the valve is turned all the way on because the stem compresses against the packing nut gasket.

A 1/4 turn valve is either on, or it is off, but you cannot crank the handle harder when the valve leaks. Conventional valves have regular washers and you can crank the valve off until you break the handle off.

Some idiot installed 1/4 turn valves on an apartment building. Three months later, I wanted to replace a kitchen faucet. The 1/4 turn valve leaks and I had to shut the entire 18-unit apartment building off to replace a 3-month old 1/4 turn valve. That would never have happened with a conventional washer-type valve.

 

:blink:

Don't use $5 stops. The ones I use are closer to $15.

I've repaired hundreds of leaks, and none have resulted in $50,000 mold projects. :blink: Just don't let it leak for 7 years straight.

Marble can't get wet?? :blink: :confused1:

Cranking down a handle 'till it breaks is a professional plumbing technique?

And someone built an apartment complex, without individual shut-offs for the units? And it passed inspection, and got a CO??


And you're a plumber??




Delta

 

This is a quarter turn angle stop, I have been installing them for about twenty years, in that time I have never had one leak.

 

What is that, a Jaclo?? :blink:





Delta

 

All you people buying horseless carriages are off your rockers. They have all those moving parts, and if you throw a wheel; shooting them doesn't solve anything. Young wipper snappers! :jester:

 

That's a very corroded valve, gee, I wonder if the innards are corroded too. Nothing is invulnerable, could be a cheap part and bad water. Never saw a the others leak? Seriously? I use dope and tape and never broke anything. Your opinions just don't match my reality.

 

Strange, you never had problems with Teflon tape causing fittings to crack? Maybe, you don't do the volume of much plumbing we do. I have seen no less than 100 plumbers do copper repipes, connect the copper mip to Price Pfister tub and shower faucet union and anywhere from a month to several months later the Price Pfister union fittings cracked. Then, of course, we have to re-open the customer's walls to make the repair that never would have happened if pipe dope was used.

Another problem with Teflon tape when you use pipe dope for fittings and the fitting has a tiny leak the fitting will seal itself within a few days. When using Teflon tape and the fitting leaks the joint cannot corrode and the leak will never seal itself resulting in an eternal leak.

I don't stock 1/4 turn valves and my plumbers are not allowed to put a roll of Teflon tape on their trucks because I am ultimately liable for damage these items cause.

There is one more serious problem I find with plumbers who use Teflon tape. When the Teflon tape is applied beyond the threads the tape gets brittle, breaks off and gets permanently stuck inside valves and faucets. It is sometimes impossible to get the Teflon out of some faucets like the kitchen faucets with the pull-out spouts.

I always hated ball valves for water mains and water heaters because there was some inferior crap made several years ago, but today it seems like the valves are made with a better-quality brass. I was always an advocate for NIBCO bronze gate valves with non-rising stems. But, like 1/4 turn angle stops, the non-rising stems have O-rings rather than packing nuts with large packing washers and after a few years the stems leak resulting in either the need to replace the guts, or replace the entire valve. Today, I use only ball valves.

It is strange how contractors like different products even when I have nothing but trouble with some of them. For example, we purchased several cases of ABS 2-part kitchen wastes and every single one we installed leaked. The ABS was soft and more like rubber. But, what bothers me the most is the supply houses always tell me they never had a complaint, or I am the only person who every complained.

 

Eerily similar looking valves at my own place that were installed in 2007 during a remodel and they look and operate like new.

Since I'm a stickler for organized files on all projects I do, here's the receipt for 3ea. R-15 CP valves from DN Suppy Corp from 3/23/07 at a cost of $3.70 ea.

So for 11 years old, inflation certainly has taken it's toll but the valves remain the same.

Now that I've thoroughly jinxed myself, I'll expect my house to flood in misery tomorrow whilst at work fixing other peoples leaks :laughing:

Joking aside...this thread has enlightened me to change out that braided filler hose on the john as I normally recommend them at 10 years.

 

The fact you have a receipt from a reno of your own house in 2007 proves you have a sickness.

 

I have a tank that hisses and trickles out of the top of the fill valve. I replaced that, and it’s still happening occasionally. The water valve doesn’t turn off the water, so I figure this has to be the cause. This article Type of toilet shut-off valve: What does it do? talk about the shut off valve issue. I am going to tackle this project soon, which is precisely what I needed.