Pics. Depending how much wall is open above and below, I have several suggestions.

 

...

 

Aren't the joists sitting on a ribbon?

 

What I've seen around tacoma had no ribbon.

 

Thats scary. So only nails holding up the floor system?

 

Sometimes there are let in 2x4's sometimes not.
Went into a home owner started renovation once, where the owner cut out a section of wall to expand the kitchen.
The only problem was that the house was balloon framed and he had gone through the back wall into a shed addition.
The fix wasn't cheap or easy, but it was a fun job.
She divorced him. :laughing:

 

Sometimes there are let in 2x4's sometimes not.
Went into a home owner started renovation once, where the owner cut out a section of wall to expand the kitchen.
The only problem was that the house was balloon framed and he had gone through the back wall into a shed addition.
The fix wasn't cheap or easy, but it was a fun job.
She divorced him. :laughing:

I did a house last year that had an intersecting gable. The front and back of the house both had additions and literally nothing was holding it up. Even after everything was gutted and I could see. Maybe the gable wall and ridge board? Pretty scary. And on the other side of the house they had an 7' arch way that the ribbon ( 1x4) was all that was holding that section

 

I can't say for sure if there is a ribbon. I'm hoping to be able to tell tomorrow when the floor is ripped up. But looking at the ceiling joists, the original house has a 1x6 ribbon. There was an addition put on probably in the 30's, and that section of ceiling joists is not sitting on a ribbon. And that is the area where the bathroom is going. Tomorrow I will post some pictures here

 

You should plan on getting into the 1st floor walls and ceiling. That way you could carry loads better. I basically gutted my house this summer. Ended up putting all floors on a ledger around the whole interior with fire blocking. Lots of hangers

 

You should plan on getting into the 1st floor walls and ceiling. That way you could carry loads better. I basically gutted my house this summer. Ended up putting all floors on a ledger around the whole interior with fire blocking. Lots of hangers

I'm trying my best not to do any work on the first floor for now. To switch gear slightly, I'm wondering if I can cut out 1 1/2" of the stud below the ceiling joists and slip a top plate in to carry the attic floor joists. Then in a few years when I renovate the first floor do the same thing to help carry the load of the 2nd floor.

 

Its amazing how long those old houses can stand while defying gravity.

 

I find there are a lot of unconventional things, by today's standards, holding them up. Dimensional sheathing that acts as a bunch of independent 1x beams, etc.

You may want to be careful trying to put in a top plate if I understand right then you'd be splitting the continuous 2 story studs, and there's some strength there that could be keeping something together. Each project is different but sometimes you have to carefully evaluate load paths and the diaphragms that restrain ends of members from moving around.

 

I wouldn't cut the studs. You could

A) put a ribbon in.
B) sister the studs so the joist is sitting on a stud, and the new stud will sit on the joist below, but that will take away from insulation.
C) frame up a new wall against the old wall. You'll be able to get a higher r value, and get the stability you're looking for.

You do know usually you start in the basement and work up in these old houses right?

 

I wouldn't cut the studs. You could

A) put a ribbon in.
B) sister the studs so the joist is sitting on a stud, and the new stud will sit on the joist below, but that will take away from insulation.
C) frame up a new wall against the old wall. You'll be able to get a higher r value, and get the stability you're looking for.

You do know usually you start in the basement and work up in these old houses right?

This would be my suggestion too but I wanted to see a pic. Even sintering for 12-24" gives you a lot more nails in shear. It's possible you could do that from above.

 

Don't go cutting the studs, you'll be sorry you did. Based on your question, I'd suggest you don't do anything that would require a structural engineer's stamp most places.

If someone were to ask me about improving an old balloon framed house, (and they don't care about saving the plaster) I'd suggest pulling the plaster / lath off the outside wall, put whalers at the top and bottom of the wall and on each stud, offset to pick up the joist. Cut and install extensions, then insulate and drywall.

Unless something is moving, I'm not sure why you want to mess with it.

 

I was wondering if there was a way to strengthen the connection of the joist to the stud. Not only in the bathroom but throughout the house.

I'm not sure why you are sistering, other than ease of routing plumbing.

Any reason why you can't just use something like a HUC412?

 

I'm not sure why you are sistering, other than ease of routing plumbing.

Any reason why you can't just use something like a HUC412?

Not sure where you would attach the hanger, as the joists run to the sheathing, there is no rim joist. Reason I am sistering is strengthen the floor for a bathroom and to level out the floor

The plaster and the lath are all gone.

 

Just hang the new floor system conventionally off the stud faces and don't worry about the old joists. Level and strong and no hassle. You still have to nail or bolt them together, but no big deal.

 

I ran a 2x8 around the tops of the walls ledgerlocked into the studs then 2x4 or 2x3 on the flat on top of existing studs. Seemed to make everything secure and made hangin drywall crown and cabinets super easy.

 

Just hang the new floor system conventionally off the stud faces and don't worry about the old joists. Level and strong and no hassle. You still have to nail or bolt them together, but no big deal.

Great idea! My original thinking was to basically turn the balloon framing into platform framing by cutting the studs below the joists (1st floor and 2nd floor) and slip in top plates for the joists to sit on. But my worry like others pointed out was the walls would begin to pull away if I started messing with that.

I should have some pictures today to post.

 

Just remembered I left this thread hanging. I'd like to give an update so far...

As far as my original question with sistering the floor joists, I had Simpson custom make a concealed flange hanger to attach to the face of the stud, and bolted the LVL into the existing joist. I'll have some pics tomorrow, as well as pics of the whole 2nd floor.

Since this is my personal house, and I have a wedding, and honeymoon, and this renovation to pay for, I'm not really able to dedicate much time during the week to this, so I really only get to work on it during the weekends...therefore, progress is pretty slow.

I met with an engineer today to spec out a steel beam for a flush girder for the front of the house. In the bedroom, I have 2"x7" beams running 20' without any real load bearing support in the middle. Quite a bit of deflection already and that's with no live load above. Once the attic is finished and furniture and people start going up there, I'll have a real problem without this girder.

Pretty amazing how these old balloon frame houses are still holding up. I couldn't believe it, but the walls are amazingly plumb and straight.

I promise to have some photos tomorrow, and if you guys are interested and have patience, I will keep up with this as I go along.

Thanks for the help thus far on the joists, by the way.

 

Definitely post pics:thumbup:

What did the hangers run?

 

Dozen ways to skin a cat,

You chose the last post and launched off.

Pictures would have generated a flurry of responses to your issue, without having custom ordered hangers from Simpson...

Maybe not...

WE will never know.

...cause you didn't post any pics.

I'm sure what you have will hold.

( just don't tell the bride to be what you spent )

 

I'm very interested in seeing the progress. Balloon frame is my chit

 

I kind of wanted to avoid the flurry of responses. Went with what I thought to be a good option. The hangers ran me about $13 each and I needed about a dozen, so really not a huge expense getting the custom hangers.

 

Here's a few photos of the bedroom that will be getting the flush beam. Joists span 23', the beam will run 20' long.

Last pic is of the temp walls going in.

 

Here are the bathroom floor joists I sistered up with the LVL. Simpson couldn't bend both flanges back like a concealed hanger, so they had to leave one flange hanging, which they said was fine. I tries to bend it back on one but didn't like the way it turned out, so I'm just going to leave the other flange as is.

 

And here's the rest of the pics I took this morning...

This is the master bedroom. Master closet will be in the back corner and have a pocket door going in, that explains the big door opening.

 

Master bath, framed out with LSL studs.

Shower will be along the back, where that beat up entry door is. Double slipper tub under the twin windows. Toilet between the shower and tub and vanity along the wall when you walk in