to start with the redesign probably required a quick floor plan anyway. so .....
charge a small fee for design work UP FRONT. if you can't sell a 250.00 plan you can't sell a 30000.00 bath. this would of been a deterent of allowing the salesman in or even accepting a referal from a friends nephew " who's new in the business and prices the same thing cheap" . you would of locked em in once they paid the fee. don't compete with the liner companies, you'll be seen as just like them. in a businesslike way tell them your a REMODELER and address the entire room. finish with telling the client you've never allowed shortcuts to be taken on your jobs! go get em!

 

Seriously, your customer is probably your customer or a rebath type customer, but not both. What they do and what you do are totally different. If there is some confusion between the two of you from your customer something is wrong. Customers don't go from seriously considering spending 30K on a bathroom by one person to 5K on the bathroom from another. The only reason that would happen is they believe the 30K bathroom and the 5K one are the same.

Something is not right in your situation. The only time a rebath competitor enters into the scenario with us is if we too are offering to do an inexpensive cosmetic remodel, and it takes about 3 sentences from me for the customer to quickly forget they ever brought them up. In your case with the vast differences in what you are doing compared to what they are doing if you have to waste more than 1 sentence you're not in front of a viable customer who is going to purchase your services.

 

Interesting that this came up. I just recently saw one of their trucks here locally. Since then ( a few days ago), I have seen a commercial for them. Must just now be getting into this area. Francise I guess. Made me wonder how they would have done the old cast iron tub I just removed from my bath. Sorta wish I still had it.

 

I owned a franchise that allowed me to do tub refits. Did 2 of them and quit.
No problems with the product, but it makes the bathroom look like a Hotel 6 bathroom. Apples and oranges, you sell remodeling and they sell a product. "And never the Twain shall meet". By the way, I got 50% gross profit on those tub surrounds. Got rid of the franchise and no longer do them.

 

My sentiments exactly.....subbed out a tub for refinish ONE time and never again

 

The only one I've ever actually seen, the tub was noticeably smaller inside, and the whole room was noticeably cheesier looking.
If they want that crap, you don't want them.

 

thanks guys for all your posts. I do know one reason that they are thinking about rebath was that the whole time we were designing the bathroom i was dealing with the wife and while they were on vacation. evidently while they were shopping for plumbing fixtures she told the husband that she wanted to live there 5 more years to enjoy the new bathroom. well he had other thoughts and was wanting to move in a year and they didnt think they could get the investment back. i am going to meet with her next week to find out a final decision because we are booked passed christmas and she will be the one that decides and wants us to start next week but knows it is not possible. I have remodeled her daughters whole house almost and so they were waiting to see how the work turned out. they loved our work and then decided to have me look into their bathroom which i need to say is in a $375,000 house. Hopefully things will work out in our best interest. And I have thought about charging design fees but I thought it would scare people away and so I have not done it yet. I end up doing alot of the design by hand then transfer to 3d for a final picture to realize what you would get. Thanks guys for all your help!!!!

 

Anytime a buisness uses the words, cover up. I would put up a red flag and wave it like a wild man. Cover ups are a buy now, pay later solution. Over time you will need to replace those capped over rotten window sills and without removing the wall tile around the tubs and repalce the tub, cover ups fail to repair the damage that exists. It just hides the problem. I believe the products can be designed to do the process well, it just means that the process of covering up has removed the fact that the tub likely had many problems or it would not have been replaced or covered up.
Cover ups can be equated to painting over rust. What is happening under that bright new glossy surface is a cancer is eating away at the very structure that the glossy surface is depending on for stabilty.
If the suface is great and the strutures are good then why not use the lesser intrusive of the two. Buying brand name knock off joggers when purchasing shoes does not mean you will complete a marathon in them..You may need to purchase two or three pair, at the same or above the brands cost.

 

something to bear in mind...what's in the customer's best interest is usually your long term best interest...

by that I mean...this house is approx $375,000...they can spend a couple of thousand on a re-bath and sell the house for $380-385,000 in a year (assuming that the market doesn't drop much more)...or they can spend $30,000 on a complete new bathroom and still sell their house for $385-390,000 in a year or two...which makes more sense?

in addition, if they are staying in the area, you have the possibility of work in their new house.

this whole thing hinges on whether they are selling or not....if they plan on saying, sell your case..but if they are moving, do the right thing...

 

Right now, things get a bit more complex than in a "good" market.
Depending on how bad they want to move the property, sometimes there is a trade-off between recovering the cost of improvement and "desirability".
One may not recover the total cost on the resale, but it might move faster.
There are gonna be a lot of houses that sit with the sign out front for a long time.
The bubble has popped, but all the pieces haven't hit the ground just yet.
That's not a decision for us to make, but something for the HO and realtor to kick around.

 

i use a similiar service now & then to "rejuvinate" thermoplastic panel pool stairs. over the past few yrs zero probs. yet my guy is an owner operator &
we are on a first name basis. he basically comes out in a "space suit" & sprays the material i pay him about a G.

btw the work is holding up to chemical & ice loads.

ray

 

i use a similiar service now & then to "rejuvinate" thermoplastic panel pool stairs. over the past few yrs zero probs. yet my guy is an owner operator &
we are on a first name basis. he basically comes out in a "space suit" & sprays the material i pay him about a G.

btw the work is holding up to chemical & ice loads.

ray

I do not think it is the same product, the liners that I have seen are pre moulded ones that kind of fit over the existing tub and cover the wall tile in some cases...I have seen the epoxy spray systems, and that could be a better product.

 

When I remodel bathrooms I sell the project as being gutted and starting over getting rid of mold, lead drum traps etc... Re-bath cannot offer that type of project so I would sell them on quality over speed. Someting along the lines of "Well Mrs. HO yes you could cover the tub and walls but you also may be trapping mold and other issues for the next HO possibly with kids to deal with".

 

I worked for a company in san diego back in the 80's that did the tub liner thing and I remember that the biggest problem that they had was water leaking in under the liner either from between the joint where the tub meets the wall or more often around the drain ring. It made the water would set in there and mold would form. I took one out once that that had happened to and boy did it smell. I never messed with that part of the business again.

 

I worked for a company in san diego back in the 80's that did the tub liner thing and I remember that the biggest problem that they had was water leaking in under the liner either from between the joint where the tub meets the wall or more often around the drain ring. It made the water would set in there and mold would form. I took one out once that that had happened to and boy did it smell. I never messed with that part of the business again.

Hey oldschool:SUA SPONTE :thumbsup:

 

A friend of mine is looking at houses, as he is in the market to upgrade, so when he gets something he might make an offer on he asks me to look at it, he wanted me to look at a house that had one of those rebath things done, it looked like hammered dog crap. I told him to keep looking, the cost of tearing that mess out and re-doing the bathroom right was not worth what they were asking for the house.

 

hey TurnkeyConst is that a marble tile job that You were telling me about?

I'm waiting to see the pics :thumbup:

 

yes it is

So guys that is what I feared for them was the ability to resell with it being done,
and the chance of leaking around the liner and into the tub. I hope that one day
everyone realizes what re-bath does but by then they will be long gone setting up
into another state.

 

yes it is

So guys that is what I feared for them was the ability to resell with it being done,
and the chance of leaking around the liner and into the tub. I hope that one day
everyone realizes what re-bath does but by then they will be long gone setting up
into another state.

This just means our jobs are that much secure in the future.:clap:

 

and you call yourselves experts?

TO all who have answered this forum with typical prejudiced responses, you give every honest and quality contractor a bad name. It seems to me from afar that most of you really don't understand what re-bath does, how they exactly do it, and what they really use. So how can you run your mouths about it? Is this the same way you approach your costumers when they ask questions?

I have worked for a re-bath dealer for 6 years. Each location is a franchise. Each location is only as good as it's ownership, but thats true for everyone who posts here too. Re-bath is not hammered crap!

It is more than tub liners. First a liner can only go over a cast iron tub and nothing else. When we remodel a fiberglass or steel, or old ceramic tile job it comes out. We offer any home owner a simple alterative to traditional bathroom remodeling. Less mess ( in general) less time to remodel.

We use no subs, we extensively train our own people.We always pull required permits when moving/changing drains, or electric is involved. We give a real honest to god lifetime warranty and stand behind it like no other company on earth. Our products are not cheap crappy preformed kits. Almost all work is done completely on site. All measuring, cutting, installing etc.

We do not sell with high pressure and empty promises, and we put every detail in writing before the client signs anything. We are outstanding members of the BBB, and actually have our entire product line independently tested by Underwriters Laboratories.


I have worked for four different contractor/remodeling firms in 16 years and have never seen a more professionally run, or better customer centered business. If you are losing bids to re-bath, then look at your approach and products you offer. It's not our fault. We don't compete with high end remodeling, and I have never been able to change a customer's mind that really wanted to do slate, or custom tile work for their bath/shower. So we really don't compete.

 

Without even getting into the rest of the crap...

We use no subs, we extensively train our own people.We always pull required permits when moving/changing drains, or electric is involved. We give a real honest to god lifetime warranty and stand behind it like no other company on earth. Our products are not cheap crappy preformed kits. Almost all work is done completely on site. All measuring, cutting, installing etc.

So all your workers/owners are licensed electricians and plumbers?

Let me guess.... HOMEOWNER'S PERMIT?

HA HA, thanks for just one more bit of evidence to trash you with.

I'd also looooooooooooooooooooooove to see you post a copy of your 'life time ' warranty for all to see.

Care to share the statistics of the industry back grounds of your owners/installers?

 

Your lifetime warranty isn't available on your website, it says to ask your local franchise operator.

 

Go to a franchisee's web site, most of us have it posted. It's real simple! We will replace any part of our tub or shower construction due to all failures for life. Other than abuse. Acrylic will not stain, or fade, or change colors, shouln't crack, peel, or chip. It may not look as great as exotic tile work, but it is a good product for alot of people to consider.

 

I had no idea you removed the tub, what happens when you have sub-floor replacement? I have a GC license other wise technically you are not allowed to rplace subfloor without a permit.

 

Depending on the exact job, we do not need a permit to replace a plywood subfloor. About half the housing here is built on slab, so no structure work is required. We do hold a GC, and Plumber license though. We find alot of water damage when we remove either a cracked fiberglass unit, or break out the pan of an old ceramic tile shower. Back in the 50's and 60's no one used a bladder, or any other type of water proof seal with tile. So sub floors almost always have to be replaced. Now if there is deeper problems, like rotten joists, sinking etc. We will bring in a structural specialist, and let them confer with the client.

At least at our three locations we only do about 5% tub liners. Most of the time even with cast iron we recommend a tear out.

 

To Sales Guy and others, to date I have done 3 installs.I didn't like the look of the finished product and had concerns about water getting in under the new tub. As systems go it is a decent system, that is acrylic liner over cast iron. The company that makes the tubs has a factory with just about every tub made, you identify the tub and they heat the acrylic and vacuum suck it down to fit over the tub mold.
As I said, I didn't care for it, went back to remodeling only, didn't like the plastic look and didn't think it would last. But it's the same acrylic that whirlpool tubs use. I don't know about rebath but my tubs came from BCI.
http://www.bciacrylic.com/ Check it out for yourself.

 

Sales Guy,
Wasn't it a coincidence that I was at homer depot this morning and run into an old friend who currently works for re-bath. I had read your post yesterday evening. So I asked him if they ever have to move plumbing and wiring. Well much to my suprise he said yes. Also 90% of the time he said he doesn't deal with permits. I know I can trust his answers because he used to work for my dad and was very trustworthy. I love when salesman talk about their business but when it comes down to the nitty gritty like permits they just overlook them. I deal with the planning, zoning, and inspections in 5 surrounding counties so I know that they could be more of a pain than just allowing you a day in and day out inspection with completion. I could see if you had 1 plumber and 1 electrician that dealt with all the inspectors they may get on your side. But I highly doubt it.

 

Good topic

When I was in addition business, if a customer was considering a tin florida room or as we call it a disposible addition, we knew they were not interested in quality or adding true value to thier home. IMO I don't consider anyone interested in a re-bath or bathfitters a customer who knows the difference between quality and a quick fix/bandaid. I'm sure that I'll never be convinced that hardened shrinkwrap is any good for anyone except the salesman who's just made a comission.
I don't think they take the tub out. I think they just cover up what is there. Mold and all.

 

When I was in addition business, if a customer was considering a tin florida room or as we call it a disposible addition, we knew they were not interested in quality or adding true value to thier home. IMO I don't consider anyone interested in a re-bath or bathfitters a customer who knows the difference between quality and a quick fix/bandaid. I'm sure that I'll never be convinced that hardened shrinkwrap is any good for anyone except the salesman who's just made a comission.
I don't think they take the tub out. I think they just cover up what is there. Mold and all.

Can't speak for bath fitter, but we never leave mold behind. It is cut out and green board goes up. Sub floor gets replaced etc. Only about 5% of our biz is tub liners. Most of the time they have to come out.

 

sales guy standing on his own two feet. good job! locally here (kc) home depot bought the liner co and made a bad product even worse. you're guilty by association although i believe you work for a better liner co if there is one.

 

I personally have never seen one of these liners installed but it sounds like it would look pretty bad afterwards unless you look at from afar and don't reallly touch it.
the good thing is, that there is a wide range of homeowners and some dont want the gut job and are happy with a hotel looking plastic bathroom.

there is a place for each job. i prefer the gut to the studs job and clean up any mold if it is there.

i can see where these homeowners are thinking about selling and so won't get that 30k back when they sell. but I think someone else stated this too, it may sell the house faster to someone who walks in and loves the custom work and knows they never have to touch that bathroom again, (as long as they like the design and choice of decor) on the other hand though some home buyers just expect to have to redo much of it anyways, so it fits their tastes. If it's done correctly without going way out on a limb with funky tile and colors, it will help sell the house faster. but definitely not add 30k to the asking price on the house.

sales guy, you are going to get a bad rep most of the time whether your franchise does great work or not, just because you are associated with a company that covers stuff up and it looks cheap. there are a lot of hacks out there who do the re-baths making you look bad as well. just like the bad contractors out there doing hack jobs and making us honest guys look bad

 

I personally have never seen one of these liners installed but it sounds like it would look pretty bad afterwards unless you look at from afar and don't reallly touch it.
the good thing is, that there is a wide range of homeowners and some dont want the gut job and are happy with a hotel looking plastic bathroom.

there is a place for each job. i prefer the gut to the studs job and clean up any mold if it is there.

i can see where these homeowners are thinking about selling and so won't get that 30k back when they sell. but I think someone else stated this too, it may sell the house faster to someone who walks in and loves the custom work and knows they never have to touch that bathroom again, (as long as they like the design and choice of decor) on the other hand though some home buyers just expect to have to redo much of it anyways, so it fits their tastes. If it's done correctly without going way out on a limb with funky tile and colors, it will help sell the house faster. but definitely not add 30k to the asking price on the house.

sales guy, you are going to get a bad rep most of the time whether your franchise does great work or not, just because you are associated with a company that covers stuff up and it looks cheap. there are a lot of hacks out there who do the re-baths making you look bad as well. just like the bad contractors out there doing hack jobs and making us honest guys look bad

Like I have said, I can't speak for bath fitter, and what other re-bath franchises do or don't do. But as far as a cast iron tub next to an acrylic one. I'll bet you cannot tell them apart until you knock on the side of each one.

 

Cast Iron vs Arcrylic

I have no real opinion about the main argument of this thread. They are two different products, for different applications. However, I'll have to say that I am constantly surprised when my potential customers cannot tell the difference between the $1500 Kohler cast iron tubs I put in my spec houses, and the cheapos from HD. I always point it out if I am there when they show, but I bet my realtors don't see the difference, either.

Of course, most of my customers and realtors dont' see why I put premium quality (read expensive) windows and doors in spec houses either. I 'd like to think that someday they'll understand, and that will be just one more reason to call me for that big custom job.

Tom

 

Seriously?

I know that there are differences in products, be it liners or lumber - and especially from where you purchase materials (as some carry poor quality).
It should be part of any successful contractor to point out these differences. As such, I would imagine some posters would accept that there may be some quality liner companies out there who are not selling cheap big box cover ups. For an industry ranked so high in customer complaints we don't need to add to the list. (tell your story, don't throw everyone else under the bus)
I have seen tons of bathroom remodels over the years and I have seen some fantastic looking liners. (and yes some that look like hammered dog crap). But I have never worked long for a guy who can't stand on his OWN merits.