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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
200 amp service panel for house is in North end of 60 foot long ranch house in full finished basement.

New pole barn garage is 12 feet away from South end of house. Customer wants 100 amp sub-panel in new pole barn.

Plan is to go thru basement wall, underground and up thru the floor of the new pole barn garage.

What materials do you suggest for the most economical installation in terms of cable, conduit, disconnects, panels and breakers.

Should I install a main disconnect inside the South end of basement right before it goes thru the wall because the cable type would change or no because it is not necessary? Customer does not care as long as it is functional.

What is the best way to drill thru a poured wall to install conduit and then waterproof around the conduit?
 

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You should hire a licensed electrician. That being said I would go up through the rim joist and them down into the ground exterior of the house, as concrete wall penetrations are difficult to ensure waterproofing over time.

Mike
 

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To seal the penetration, you're looking for waterstop (as opposed to caulking or sealant). There are a number of bentonite-based stops; Adeka's water-stop, which comes in a caulk tube, is also very easy to use. Very reliable, as long as you follow instructions completely.
 

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You should hire a licensed electrician. That being said I would go up through the rim joist and them down into the ground exterior of the house, as concrete wall penetrations are difficult to ensure waterproofing over time.

Mike
Mike in NYS there are no licensing laws for electricians except in cities. Seeing as he is talking a pole barn chances are it is not in a city.

We do have to have it inspected by independent licensing organization.
 

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Highwayman
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Well, this is a fairly simple job for someone familiar with electrical work, I done numerous myself, but there are a wide variety of variables contingent upon your specific installation, the NEC, and any local codes you may have. It may not be a job you should tackle if you don't have a lot of electrical experience.

You have several options when it comes to wire type. You need to get familiar with NEC to determine what one to use. For example, you can use a direct burial wire outside, but you can't bring that wire to the panel.

Disco's are very specifically spelled out in the code, their type, placement, etc..

Type of panel is also determined by code requirements. Don't know how many circuit you plan to have, but there is the "6 throw rule".

Which breakers you use are also determined by the code for some things, and personal choice for others.

Wire size and wiring method is also spelled out in the code. You can use AL, or CU. You can do diect burial, or conduit, or both.



Sorry I'm not much help, but this points out why it's so difficult to design a system without seeing it.

And anyone who will just say, "do this here, at that there", without knowing any more about the installation, is not giving good, or code-compliant advice.



Delta
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
This is a common scenario that appears to have many solutions. Here are two I found suggested a bunch of times.

1. Main panel, 90A breaker, 4 wire 2/2/2/4 SER to exterior, split bolts in exterior Jbox to direct burial 2/2/2/4 mobile home feeder down exterior wall of house until below grade, across 12 foot as direct burial and then back into conduit below grade and up exterior wall of new structure in conduit thru LB into back of new panel

2. 4 THWN wires continuous in conduit in and outside of buildings sized to code for 100A breaker both ends.

In both cases new panel is not bonded and requires ground rods.

I will check with inspector and electrician that will be doing the work now that I have some pros and cons and familiarity.

There was also some suggestions about dual listed that could be inside house without conduit but the suggestions were incomplete and it was not known of the right combinations of listings would be available

There are no local codes.
 

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Head Grunt
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IMO i would put in a 100 amp breaker in the house panel, run 100 URD in conduit out the home panel across the basement and out the sill, LB down into the ground and run to the barn. Up to you if it is in conduit or not by why wouldnt you? Run up the outside wall of the pole barn and LB into the wall directly into the new panel. Personally depending on what your doing i would just install a 100 amp with main breaker 20 slot panel end be done. Ground the panel as normal and wire as normal. Or you can run 4 wire from the home panel out to the sub panel but if you do check that you can keep the ground and neutral buss separate. Not all panels keep the ground and neutral buss separate, the ground screw only bonds the ground buss to the panel. Then keep you grounds and neutrals separate.
 

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Highwayman
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My name's not Ken, but I thought I had code down pretty well for this sort of thing. Drawing a blank; hope someone chimes in with it.
I'll look up the code reference in a little, but a sub-panel may not need a main breaker in the panel if the entire panel can be can be shut down with no more than 6 hand movements.

Standby.




Delta
 

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Highwayman
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since this is being discussed, I'd like to point out some things to be aware of, for you and any future readers of this thread.


This is a common scenario that appears to have many solutions. Here are two I found suggested a bunch of times.

1. Main panel, 90A breaker, 4 wire 2/2/2/4 SER to exterior, (are we talking cu, or al? Wire size will be different) split bolts (Are you familiar with how to properly install a split-Bolt? I've repair exploded connections and J-boxes because the previous "electrician" fvked the operation) in exterior Jbox (Do you know how to install a Wet Location Rated box for it to remain waterproof? I've seen this screwed up, too) to direct burial 2/2/2/4 mobile home feeder down exterior wall of house (SER cable subject to physical damage must be encased in conduit to at least 18" below grade. Can't just staple it to the side of a house :eek:)until below grade, across 12 foot as direct burial and then back into conduit below grade and up exterior wall of new structure in conduit thru LB into back of new panel

2. 4 THWN wires continuous in conduit in and outside of buildings sized to code for 100A breaker both ends.

In both cases new panel is not bonded and requires ground rods. (I think you mean neutral and ground are not connected at the sub-panel. The panel MUST be bonded, just not to the neutral)
I will check with inspector and electrician that will be doing the work now that I have some pros and cons and familiarity.

There was also some suggestions about dual listed that could be inside house without conduit but the suggestions were incomplete and it was not known of the right combinations of listings would be available (Are you refering to a direct burial cable that is also listed for interior use? There is only one that I know of, and it's very expensive. Always been cheaper and easier on my jobs to install a J-box and transition to THHN)

There are no local codes.
 

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Highwayman
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The six throw rule...

NEC 225.33 for a separate building.

Disconnect rule used to say not more than six movements of the hand. Hmm...
I always thought if I was bored one day, I'd tell the Inspectigator that, since I have 4 fingers per hand, I can flip 4 breakers at a time, therefore a 24 slot panel in an auxiliary structure shouldn't need a main. :eek: :laughing:
 
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