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Discussion Starter #1
I don't frame houses. I live in southern NJ. Around here every house I see being framed is done so by foreigners. Even Hovanian uses them. A lot of them are Brazilian and some look very young.
I have yet to see a house being framed by a native american crew. Why?
Are framers being driven out of business by these guys ? Or are these crews being hired by GC's who could care less if they are legal or not. ?
On one big development the sign at the entrance to the site was in spanish!
Instructing them where to park their trucks, etc.
Where is the INS ? Illegals don't get federal and state taxes deducted. You can be damn sure that uncle sam will put you in jail if you don't pay your taxes . This country is going down hill.
 

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I don't see too many in framing here but they pretty much dominate the roofing and painting business's. They are trying to write some laws here as to how many can occupy a dwelling, you can imagine how complicated that must be.

You can gain some leverage in getting the job done correctly and more efficiently. I recently took a late lunch on a cul-de-sac with many homes in different stages of construction and just observed. Tile roof, one tile lost for every two placed, maybe three in an open field. Paint, no runs but lots of weak, peppered spots. The paint subs aren't even held responsible, a punch guy comes behind and fixes all of their blurbs! Everybody elses too!

I must be losing touch.
 

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Well just because there is a sign in Spanish doesn't automatically mean illegal alien. They can be legally here with a work visa. It just so happens that the construction field is being taken over by hispanics. Really it boils down to who is doing the job the cheapest when it comes to developers like Hovnanian :rolleyes:. The leading trade magazines are even putting out Spanish editions now. Young people would rather sit at a desk and type on a keyboard than have to work in freezing cold or hot weather and get their hands dirty :confused: As a result construction workers have to come from somewhere. If you look back in history you can compare what is happening now with all the Italian and Irish immigrants in the early 1900's.
 

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Yes it really is a shame about the younger generation. Im 28 and I cant believe I say things like that. :rolleyes: Anyway, alot of kids do prefer to sit home, play video games, and sit on the computer as compared to even 10-15 years ago. Thats why the obesity rate is so high I believe as well. I dont want to over generalize here but I think alot of people thing doing construction work is a pointless, deadend job that should be left for "dumb people" who couldnt go to college. Therefore, people find help where they can. In the cheaper labor of immigrants, legal or illegal. Its sad, but its true.
I have a 9 year old brother who was an "accident" and even the old man is alot more lax on him than he was me. At his age I was using a push mower to cut almost an acre of grass. Now the oldmans got a rider and all the kid does is play vids lol. Oh well... I did have him up on the scaffolding and I let him lay a few brick and spread some mud.. so we'll see. He said he liked it and it was fun. Maybe I'll save one from the florescent world of keys and cubicles.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
TimNJ said:
Well just because there is a sign in Spanish doesn't automatically mean illegal alien. They can be legally here with a work visa. It just so happens that the construction field is being taken over by hispanics. Really it boils down to who is doing the job the cheapest when it comes to developers like Hovnanian :rolleyes:. The leading trade magazines are even putting out Spanish editions now. Young people would rather sit at a desk and type on a keyboard than have to work in freezing cold or hot weather and get their hands dirty :confused: As a result construction workers have to come from somewhere. If you look back in history you can compare what is happening now with all the Italian and Irish immigrants in the early 1900's.
True- it does not mean they are illegal. However, to think the illegals are not
heavily represented is to be blind. Regarding young people not wanting these jobs. I disagree. I don't think enough effort is done to reach out to young people, especially black people. They have a very high unemployment rate.
I have met very few blacks in the trades. Some in the HVAC union, and only a few in carpentry. I see a lot of young blacks working at fast food places.
I think these contractors get some hispanics in there working and then petition the gov't to get more in by work visas and do almost nothing to get the young blacks involved.
I am one that does not think that mexicans are harder workers than americans. Maybe some young white kids don't want the work but I bet the blacks do if they reached out harder. Where is Jackson and fat Al Sharpton on this issue ? I don't have a problem with immigrants(illegals I do ) but give the people living here the first shot at opportunities.
 

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I dont think it has anything to do with reaching out personally. I dont think construction is they type of job where you have to wine and dine and talk people into doing it. You think people go and try to talk Mexicans into construction. No. The Mexicans know where the work is and are willing to do it. Black people know where to find work. White people know where to find work. I think its just case of who is willing to do it. And please, noone take that as a racist statement. I am far from it. Im just stating that the work is there for the people who are willing to do it and you shouldnt have to 'reach out' to people.
 

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6stringmason said:
I dont think it has anything to do with reaching out personally. I dont think construction is they type of job where you have to wine and dine and talk people into doing it. You think people go and try to talk Mexicans into construction. No. The Mexicans know where the work is and are willing to do it. Black people know where to find work. White people know where to find work. I think its just case of who is willing to do it. And please, noone take that as a racist statement. I am far from it. Im just stating that the work is there for the people who are willing to do it and you shouldnt have to 'reach out' to people.
I couldn't agree more, 6string, - - no one 'reached out' to me, - - it's every man for himself in this world, - - all the 'crying' and 'pointing' does is exacerbate the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Tom R said:
I couldn't agree more, 6string, - - no one 'reached out' to me, - - it's every man for himself in this world, - - all the 'crying' and 'pointing' does is exacerbate the problem.

No one is crying so save your hyperbole( I guess you will have to look that up). As far as illegals go, you get a few in the door and they bring their friends and before long there is no more room for legitimate people.
Remove all the illegals and you will have a need for people looking for work.
If you don't believe in racism then you don't know much about life. I have seen it in action in the decision makers. Good for you, you did it yourself, you are a real man, wow ! You don't know what you are talking about.
I am saying people who don't belong here don't deserve to stay here. When you have a flood of them and they come willing to work cheap it drives down wages and makes it tempting to the GC's to go along.
 

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Well I couldnt agree more about illegals. I dont believe anyone ever said they are for illegal aliens working in this country. If you take a second and read my entire post and then Tom R's reply you'll see hes talking about how I disagee with you about wanting to "reach out" to people. As if construction companies are supposed to take potential laborers out for dinner. Or to go looking for ethnic people to hire so they dont work in fast food chains. Thats bs. (maybe look that one up)

Its up to the individual to do something for themselves and to want to better their life. Not others to try and entice them to do it.
 

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6stringmason said:
Its up to the individual to do something for themselves and to want to better their life. Not others to try and entice them to do it.
Well put, - - when I got my first job in construction, - - McDonald's was hirin', too, - - I had a choice to make, - - our choices are what we live by. No excuses.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
6stringmason said:
Well I couldnt agree more about illegals. I dont believe anyone ever said they are for illegal aliens working in this country. If you take a second and read my entire post and then Tom R's reply you'll see hes talking about how I disagee with you about wanting to "reach out" to people. As if construction companies are supposed to take potential laborers out for dinner. Or to go looking for ethnic people to hire so they dont work in fast food chains. Thats bs. (maybe look that one up)

Its up to the individual to do something for themselves and to want to better their life. Not others to try and entice them to do it.
How are they going to do something for themselves if there are few openings for the work ? Because the slots are all taken by legals and illegals.
Don't you think people born in this country have a right to those jobs before immigrants. I do.
What is wrong with notifying people of opportunities ? It happens all the time. City jobs "reach out" to groups to try to get them to join.
Example: NYPD. When I started the job in 1975 it was almost all white males
of irish, italian, german, polish descent. When I left it changed dramatically
in racial makeup because of "reaching out". Those other groups knew the job was there but needed a push to apply.
You have to be a citizen to get those jobs.
 

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bellerose said:
How are they going to do something for themselves if there are few openings for the work ? Because the slots are all taken by legals and illegals.
Don't you think people born in this country have a right to those jobs before immigrants. I do.
What is wrong with notifying people of opportunities ? It happens all the time. City jobs "reach out" to groups to try to get them to join.
Example: NYPD. When I started the job in 1975 it was almost all white males
of irish, italian, german, polish descent. When I left it changed dramatically
in racial makeup because of "reaching out". Those other groups knew the job was there but needed a push to apply.
You have to be a citizen to get those jobs.
Was it because of the 'reaching out', - - or was it because they gave them 10 free points on their test score? At least that's what the New Jersey State Police do, - - they're talking now of making it 15, - - who will 'reach out' to the (white Christian) 'flunkies' (you know, - - the ones that got the higher grades) of this 'dumbing down' of the system??

I must be a racist, - - I'm only for 'equality'.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Tom R said:
Was it because of the 'reaching out', - - or was it because they gave them 10 free points on their test score? At least that's what the New Jersey State Police do, - - they're talking now of making it 15, - - who will 'reach out' to the (white Christian) 'flunkies' (you know, - - the ones that got the higher grades) of this 'dumbing down' of the system??

I must be a racist, - - I'm only for 'equality'.
I agree with you there. That is BS. That did not happen in NYC as far as I know. I don't know what they do now.
 

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Oh, OK, - - we've definitely reached some 'common ground' here, - - now on your other point, - - Illegal Aliens, - - although they have never affected me (at least directly), - - I think they should all be deported, - - like YESTERDAY!! :Thumbs:
 

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Tom R said:
Oh, OK, - - we've definitely reached some 'common ground' here, - - now on your other point, - - Illegal Aliens, - - although they have never affected me (at least directly), - - I think they should all be deported, - - like YESTERDAY!! :Thumbs:

I agree with you there but there are too many other forces working against deportation like it should be. Bush is useless on this issue. He is in bed with
Pres. FOX.
 

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bellerose said:
How are they going to do something for themselves if there are few openings for the work ? Because the slots are all taken by legals and illegals.
Don't you think people born in this country have a right to those jobs before immigrants. I do.
What is wrong with notifying people of opportunities ? It happens all the time. City jobs "reach out" to groups to try to get them to join.
Example: NYPD. When I started the job in 1975 it was almost all white males
of irish, italian, german, polish descent. When I left it changed dramatically
in racial makeup because of "reaching out". Those other groups knew the job was there but needed a push to apply.
You have to be a citizen to get those jobs.
I dont think I should have to give anyone an extra push to work hard for a living. If people want to work at McDonalds let them. If they want to come work for me, let them. I certainly am not going to give anyone an extra push to work. Then what happens. They get on the site and I have to give them an extra push to do their job. I have to give them an extra push to show up everyday and on time. Where does it end? What is wrong with letting people figure out for themselves what to do with their life instead me telling them by giving them an extra push.
 

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Greed

its the greedy white owned construction firms that are mostly to blame,payless,make more.american kids don't have a snowballs chance in hell to compete with the spanish work force even if they wanted too,now they really better stay in school!
this may end up looking like the fall of rome.white companies will be drivin out and the spanish companies will be moving in.if my son takes over someday,i have no idea how he is going to compete.i don't hire illegals ,americans citizens only ,any race color or creed as long as there an american citizen,I'm not the big greedy white man and i still make a good living,wake up america,and do the right thing. :Thumbs:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
nywoodwizard said:
its the greedy white owned construction firms that are mostly to blame,payless,make more.american kids don't have a snowballs chance in hell to compete with the spanish work force even if they wanted too,now they really better stay in school!
this may end up looking like the fall of rome.white companies will be drivin out and the spanish companies will be moving in.if my son takes over someday,i have no idea how he is going to compete.i don't hire illegals ,americans citizens only ,any race color or creed as long as there an american citizen,I'm not the big greedy white man and i still make a good living,wake up america,and do the right thing. :Thumbs:
You are absolutely correct. Let me give you a personal example about a greedy company called Hovanian. I did all the work for a farmer for 7 years until he died at age 88.He was born there.He had 20 acres with 1200 feet on the water. Planted with rows of evergreens and fruit trees, etc.Numerous out buildings, barn, 2 houses, etc. It was a wonderland of beauty. His only son
was pressured by his wife to sell the place.
They had it offered for $800,000. A few people were qualified and wanted the place. Hovanian came in and offered $1,000,000 and the son sold it to him.
Hovanian tore everything down and put up 40 luxury homes. Disgusting !
That is a company that has foreigners doing their framing,siding,painting.
I'll bet a lot of them are illegal.
 
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