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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’m trying to spec out a job using PVC corners and window trim with a insulated vinyl panel. Its a little thick in either case I looked into the Vesatex stealth boards and the Kleer version. I like the KLEER, I also like the "snap lock" corner post wraps.

I have used PVC for fascias and skirts but not a whole house 30plus opening. It looks incredible labor intensive so any pointers from the guys who do a lot with this material would be appreciated.

Its a remodel strip down reside with Anderson windows. We're looking for a jay-less look. I think I need the nail flange cut-outs on the molding then fabricate a Jay to drop into the top. Am I miss reading that spec?

Also can this type of trim be butted if routed out? I usually prefer butt with wood but if its a hassle than I can live with miters.

To save some time I was thinking biscuit joints would be better than pocket screw. Is that a problem waiting to happen?

This work is part of a large scope remodel and I cant price this phase with a solid plan on how it will get done. Its easy 30 openings.

Thanks
 

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Tom
have you thought about having the trim pre made for you?
http://www.advancedtrimwright.com/they use a pretty interesting j type clip

with the insulated siding to get a j less look your going to have to pack out all the trim the thickness of the foam

i would use the pocket screws

i usually like to close off the top of the head with a projecting dripcap
but you could use a bent up j type drip thats integrated into the packing
 

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Tom
I have used azek with insulated siding(certainteed) which required a 1 1/4" J pocket. Azek trim boards come with a biult in J,its not a typical J and you cannot notice it. its 3/4" so we built it out with some plywood.
we also did all the half round windows as well, no J-channel at all,just azek and azek corners.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Welter---My first thought was I would need to pad out corners and windows with plywood. I would be using 7" insulated cedar boards. That would be even more work that could be an 1 hour plus / window to fabricate and more material. Were those panels flexible? If you have to drop down over the previous panel like aluminum siding I could see the need for a deeper jay but if you could flex the panels that would help. Obviously large panel is a non-issue and short panels would suck.

TomT that link was busted I wouldnt outsource anything that need to be job fit piece by piece. I know what your saying in the first pic but I have no idea what's going on in the other 2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I sided this house 4 years ago all woodlands16 over tyvek and dow foam. Because of the work going on hes optiing to change it.
One of my concerns with these insulated panels is rain screen and water bleed through. I would have to eliminate the tyvek altogether and use tar paper.
 

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Tom

actually depending on the panel the foam may have a rain screen built in

you have to make sure the packing you use is weather resistant and basically water proof,in the pics i posted i wrapped the packing and at the top i installed a z so i could incorporate a fully integrated j/drip detail that alowed me to side the head trim up into the drip cap

id prefer to install solid drip detail on the window heads,in the following pics you can see the siding is into a route on the sides and into a j at the head

you can have more than 1 later of tyvek but im sure Loneframer would approve of your use of felt

sorry about the link but you can google atw trim,could be of interest even just to get trim ideas
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thanks again Tom, I was hoping Loneframer would chime in as well. I was thinking that I would have to water proof any packing and that additional step further turned me off as labor keeps increasing.

As you know Tyvek is not a vapor barrier but a good air barrier. Tyvek works well with a rain screen or hollow siding because it airs out water vapor and drains. The certinteed panel has a flat expanded foam back so water drainage has to be bad. The royal addressed the issue and made a corrugated foam back to allow air but its very cheesey and seem less worth while. They made the recesses horizontal instead of verticle. How dumb.

In either case I am against these insulated panels. I know they tried this years back with aluminum then dropped the idea when it failed. At least the paper will be forgiving if I end up using the system. I think its the 7" panel that the customer likes and I cant find an "uninsulated" panel in that size. Oh well
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My local Bradco banged up after 30 years. There's riverdale closer to you but thats kinda remote from the job.
 

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Thom, I'm the first guy to jump on with #30 felt for the WRB, but you may want to look into the compatability with foam backed siding. The petroleum base in the asphalt may react with the foam and cause problems. I don't have any experience with the foam backed products, but have plenty of experience with Azek and the possibilities it allows. As far as packing out, we typically use Azek when we're doing Azek trim packages. In certain cases, we will use PT plywood for packing if it's for a receiver behind a frieze board or barge board. I bend an L out of coil stock to tuck against the packer, forming a sort of J when the Azek overlay goes on. I'm posting some pics of examples of J-less configurations.:thumbsup: The last pic is Crane siding, BTW.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well thank you for the reply was looking for your input.

I cant really see the detail from a profile but I get the gist of how you approach it. Again it seem very labor intensive. Have you ever put a time on how long you need to fabricate a stealth window surround? Assuming joined mitres, packing and aluminum inner protection. Its got to be an hour and a half each standard window size. Did you ever try biscuit joing those mitres?

Those raised panels look real nice in that one pic is that homemade? I have a similar detail on a blue print that I thought I would buy sheet goods as a base and then router stiles to create the panels.

I just found a pvc siding called NUCedar it really looks awesome. I think im going to price it out.
 

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Well thank you for the reply was looking for your input.

I cant really see the detail from a profile but I get the gist of how you approach it. Again it seem very labor intensive. Have you ever put a time on how long you need to fabricate a stealth window surround? Assuming joined mitres, packing and aluminum inner protection. Its got to be an hour and a half each standard window size. Did you ever try biscuit joing those mitres?

Those raised panels look real nice in that one pic is that homemade? I have a similar detail on a blue print that I thought I would buy sheet goods as a base and then router stiles to create the panels.

I just found a pvc siding called NUCedar it really looks awesome. I think im going to price it out.
I never really put a time on one opening because most of these get mass produced for several openings at once. The first is always the most time consuming. I've never biscuited the joints, just PVC cement and pinned in place. The material varies in thickness sometimes and I like to have room to manipulate the joint to get the best appearance.

The panels on the window surround are all sheet goods and stock base cap moldings. The packer is 3/4, the faceframes are also 3/4, lapped onto the siding by 1", the panels are 3/8 with an ogee profile.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
No word on the NuCedar the company has not responded to me yet but FYI I found out that Certainteed Restoration boards make a 1.5" deep pocket board for thick panels. So that answered my solution and saved me all that extra labor padding out regular 5/4.
 

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We have used PVC casing from Harvey. It has J routed into it, and a nail fin. I've never used the foam filled siding, but we have used these casings with Cedar Discovery. With the andersens ,you'd have to rabbit the back for the window nail fin.
We miter them, and glue the miters with bond n fill epoxy.
They don't offer a corner with the same J detail.
 

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KemoSabe
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We have used PVC casing from Harvey. It has J routed into it, and a nail fin. I've never used the foam filled siding, but we have used these casings with Cedar Discovery. With the andersens ,you'd have to rabbit the back for the window nail fin.
We miter them, and glue the miters with bond n fill epoxy.
They don't offer a corner with the same J detail.
Looks like a quick run through the tablesaw, some PVC cement and viola, sweet corner post. What lengths are available?
 

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Good idea Lone.
They come in 12' and 16'. It is a bit pricey at $2.48 lf.
Compared to 5/4 Azek at around $2.00 lf.
It does go together pretty easy. By the time I bought azek ripped it, packed it out this stuff works out cheaper. Also I think it looks better.
 

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Good idea Lone.
They come in 12' and 16'. It is a bit pricey at $2.48 lf.
Compared to 5/4 Azek at around $2.00 lf.
It does go together pretty easy. By the time I bought azek ripped it, packed it out this stuff works out cheaper. Also I think it looks better.
The built in J is the clincher. I plowed out 5/4 for my garage entry door, but still had to back flash it behind the siding. Metal ain't cheap either.
 

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