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Hi guys. Just wanted to get some input. What would it take and what would be the proper steps to go about getting the structure in place for propositioning the state of Louisiana to license framers. I've heard of framers having to be licensed in other states. Not so in Louisiana. I believe that a framer should be licensed bc of the in depth knowledge of structural integrity needed, length on a project, and dollar value as a sub. Framing is the biggest part of most projects and I would like to change the fact that they are not licensed in this state. Any insight to get the ball rolling on this would be helpful. Thanks for reading and thanks for your time.
 

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Boondockian
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Hi guys. Just wanted to get some input. What would it take and what would be the proper steps to go about getting the structure in place for propositioning the state of Louisiana to license framers. I've heard of framers having to be licensed in other states. Not so in Louisiana. I believe that a framer should be licensed bc of the in depth knowledge of structural integrity needed, length on a project, and dollar value as a sub. Framing is the biggest part of most projects and I would like to change the fact that they are not licensed in this state. Any insight to get the ball rolling on this would be helpful. Thanks for reading and thanks for your time.
You've been here 5 years and only have 24 post? You really should pay attention more to the guys around here's views otherwise you will always get replies like Inners.

Licensing is a mechanism used by those in a business to keep competition to a minimum by creating barriers to others entering the market.
 

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Hair Splitter
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Why would you want more regulation? I am with Inner...I second his comment. Less government and more freedom.

But I will pose this question to you as I do with the license crowd. If all framing work is inspected why the need to be licensed?
 

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One reason is to get illegal labor out of that field and put the American man with the proper credentials in place back to work. I've yet to see a crew of illegal mechanical subs yet. It also stops the price gouging bc it cost what it cost when you're having to pull permits and follow strict regulations.
 

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I'm for it.. around here a plumber and electrical contractor need to be licensed, and guess what, they tend to make more money, or at least charge more on average per man hour ...

Yes it is more regulation.. guess what.. doctors and lawyers are also regulated.. and there is no race to the bottom in those professions..
 

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Hair Splitter
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One reason is to get illegal labor out of that field and put the American man with the proper credentials in place back to work. I've yet to see a crew of illegal mechanical subs yet. It also stops the price gouging bc it cost what it cost when you're having to pull permits and follow strict regulations.
How would a license accomplish that? They are illegal... Which by definition means they don't care to obey the law. Currently is illegal to use illegal aliens, so a license would just double up laws.
 

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Hair Splitter
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I'm for it.. around here a plumber and electrical contractor need to be licensed, and guess what, they tend to make more money, or at least charge more on average per man hour ...

Yes it is more regulation.. guess what.. doctors and lawyers are also regulated.. and there is no race to the bottom in those professions..
So you think the licensing is the factor in charging more?

Actually there are fewer and fewer doctors due to over regulation. And some are now lowering their prices and accepting cash only to get rid of a major regulation... Insurance.

A license is not needed if your work is inspected.
 

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So you think the licensing is the factor in charging more?

Actually there are fewer and fewer doctors due to over regulation. And some are now lowering their prices and accepting cash only to get rid of a major regulation... Insurance.

A license is not needed if your work is inspected.
Yes I do believe licensing is the difference- it makes the barrier to entry more challenging, taking more effort and commitment to your trade. I think with this you wouldn't get the lowballing that occurs with spec house framing.. around here immigrants drove the prices right down in that industry... For some reason these same groups have not entered the plumbing or electrical industry, or if they have they charge going rates.

The doctor debate, well I am in Canada, different setup. While there is actually too many lawyers graduating now I understand, still we all know how much they tend to charge.. if there was no barrier to entry for law, I don't think they could charge what they do.

Yes framing is inspected- But so is electrical mechanical plumbing.. and they need to be regulated.. just seems to me you don't get the same low balling in those trades that happens with framing that will drive down prices in a lot of markets.
 

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Not having any sort of mandatory licensing for carpenters ends up pushing wages way down in comparison to regulated trades. This means the highly skilled guys end up having a lower standard of living, switching trades, switching careers completely (one of the better carpenters I've ever worked with now writes software) or working for themselves (not everyone wants that headache). End result is too many "hackjobs".... I'm sure alot of small self employed carpenters aren't making employee electrician money.

This is what I see in my area atleast.
 

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Not having any sort of mandatory licensing for carpenters ends up pushing wages way down in comparison to regulated trades. This means the highly skilled guys end up having a lower standard of living, switching trades, switching careers completely (one of the better carpenters I've ever worked with now writes software) or working for themselves (not everyone wants that headache). End result is too many "hackjobs".... I'm sure alot of small self employed carpenters aren't making employee electrician money.


This is what I see in my area atleast.

Yep, I agree with that.
 

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I find that those who are in favor if barriers to entry sing a different tune when the barrier comes down on the wrong side of them. Be carful what you wish for.
 

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You need to get state organanzations such as NAHB, NARI, contractors groups ect that have political power to influence the state government.

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Good luck with that. Those are likely the organazations that pushed for LA's contractors licenses to begin with and the swarmy nature of contracting there. Read the administrative laws regarding contractor licensing, it's pretty obvious.

Seriously what benefit to the common good/residents of your state will licensing 'carpenters' be? I understand it will benefit contractors and by default employee's. Quality of work is on the GC and inspectors, so that's not a viable benefit.
 

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Hair Splitter
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Yes I do believe licensing is the difference- it makes the barrier to entry more challenging, taking more effort and commitment to your trade. I think with this you wouldn't get the lowballing that occurs with spec house framing.. around here immigrants drove the prices right down in that industry... For some reason these same groups have not entered the plumbing or electrical industry, or if they have they charge going rates.

The doctor debate, well I am in Canada, different setup. While there is actually too many lawyers graduating now I understand, still we all know how much they tend to charge.. if there was no barrier to entry for law, I don't think they could charge what they do.

Yes framing is inspected- But so is electrical mechanical plumbing.. and they need to be regulated.. just seems to me you don't get the same low balling in those trades that happens with framing that will drive down prices in a lot of markets.
A license is just a piece of paper and proves nothing to no one. I am sick and tired of people thinking that government can solve THEIR problems.

So far all I hear is high wages. I know plenty of outfits that pay carpenters quite well. I also know that framers a dime a dozen and the fact that the move on to a true specialty trade means the system works. Framing is a young mans game. Walking a two or three story wall lifting 30'+ rafters all day long isn't what you should be doing after 20 years.

And I have said it before, and I will say it again, I don't even think that plumbers or electricians should have to be licensed. If every job is inspected why do you need it? To prove to someone I am serious about my trade? To force up wages?

I just don't think you need a piece of paper and more government regulation to do your job and make a good living at it.

And Spec homes are pretty much all junk regardless. I can't tell you how many homes I have been in that were wired by so called licensed electricians and they were wired all wrong.

If the laws already on the books were enforced and companies fined big time for using illegal aliens the problem would solve it self. So the problem has nothing to do with licensing, but illegal workers.
 

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A license is just a piece of paper and proves nothing to no one. I am sick and tired of people thinking that government can solve THEIR problems.

So far all I hear is high wages. I know plenty of outfits that pay carpenters quite well. I also know that framers a dime a dozen and the fact that the move on to a true specialty trade means the system works. Framing is a young mans game. Walking a two or three story wall lifting 30'+ rafters all day long isn't what you should be doing after 20 years.

And I have said it before, and I will say it again, I don't even think that plumbers or electricians should have to be licensed. If every job is inspected why do you need it? To prove to someone I am serious about my trade? To force up wages?

I just don't think you need a piece of paper and more government regulation to do your job and make a good living at it.

And Spec homes are pretty much all junk regardless. I can't tell you how many homes I have been in that were wired by so called licensed electricians and they were wired all wrong.

If the laws already on the books were enforced and companies fined big time for using illegal aliens the problem would solve it self. So the problem has nothing to do with licensing, but illegal workers.

It has nothing to do with someone thinking the government will solve their problem, it has to do with the fact that when an industry is regulated, it can command a higher dollar. I make a decent living as a journeyman carpenter, but on average a J-man plumber or sparky can make more, just the way it is for the most part. I am thinking of the bigger picture economics of it.

If you think framers are a dime a dozen, then I wouldn't want you building my house. (and I am not a specialty framer, BTW)

So by your logic then you wouldn't need to see a doctor with the proper qualifications hanging on his wall? I know it isn't an apples to apples comparison with framing, but you said licensing in general..

Another example is home inspection, I am in the process of getting my license for that, which includes a lot of coursework and mentoring... there is another area I think regulation is a good thing..
 

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It has nothing to do with someone thinking the government will solve their problem, it has to do with the fact that when an industry is regulated, it can command a higher dollar. I make a decent living as a journeyman carpenter, but on average a J-man plumber or sparky can make more, just the way it is for the most part. I am thinking of the bigger picture economics of it.

If you think framers are a dime a dozen, then I wouldn't want you building my house. (and I am not a specialty framer, BTW)

So by your logic then you wouldn't need to see a doctor with the proper qualifications hanging on his wall? I know it isn't an apples to apples comparison with framing, but you said licensing in general..

Another example is home inspection, I am in the process of getting my license for that, which includes a lot of coursework and mentoring... there is another area I think regulation is a good thing..
So why not go become a plumber or electrician, then, if you want to make more money? Or a doctor, lawyer or financial industries guy?
 
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