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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thought I would through up a picture of the process we use to promote our websites. I know that most people do not have the resources to do all of theses tasks but I think some be be able to use of of the info on here.

There is no real direction on how to use these various services but feel free to ask any question...also a search on google can find a lot of information as well.

The dashed arrows are links pointing to the main/money site


j
 

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To me Link-wheels are still highly debatable. Why? The amount of effort involved in the process. Unless of coarse you've got an automated process to speed things up. But even so, you still need to build links to each hub to make it effective. There's nothing wrong with doing this method. I would write unique high quality articles to place on these hubs site, not regurgitated crap with a spin on it.. Then you need to build and continuously build quality links to it. Otherwise you'll get what many report of as a temporary rise in the serps.

So its like any type of link building process, one that keeps evolving, and one you must keep building on. Give it a shot and report your findings here.

P.S pick one keyword and build upon that. Also, if you get good at it, create sub-wheels off of your big-wheel..
 

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To those that do not know what a link wheel is or how to create one it is basically an article you write linked to another article you write linked to, etc. For instance:

You write and article and submit it to Ezinearticles and link from that article to your website.

Then write a "squidoo lens" (an article for squidoo) and link from that to your ezinearticles page.

Then create a hubpage about your topic and link that to the squidoo lens.

Then write a blog on a free blogger blog about your topic and link that to your hubpage.

etc., etc.

You can leave it "open" in which case you simply continue like this. Or you can "close" the wheel and link from your site to the blogger blog.

The argument being that rather than simply having various links pointing to your site it looks like (to Google supposedly) many, many people are talking about your company and each is linking to the other and they all end up at your page. Your a superstar! :w00t:

I don't know if it works well or not or if it simply gives you a short spike in your search engine rankings until, eventually, people stop talking about you (you stop writing articles). I haven't tried it and don't know that I have the time to devote to a questionable action. I think I'd rather continue writing relevant blog posts and post them on my own site and if people talk about them or link to them great, if not - I suck. Either way I sleep at night. I don't have the time to try and outthink Google. :party:
 

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Bingo! I like this part very much..Keep the articles on your blog and build authority to that site -- build links to your own posts! Become da man in your niche playah! hahaaa..:thumbup:

Okay, going to sleep now.. gotta inset header to frame in a kitchen remodel tomorrow..nighty night!

I think I'd rather continue writing relevant blog posts and post them on my own site and if people talk about them or link to them great, if not - I suck. Either way I sleep at night. I don't have the time to try and outthink Google. :party:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you guys for responding to this thread. I find it interesting that there are 10 different ways we promote our websites shown on here and linkwheels seem to draw the most attention.

I think I'll change the name on it (maybe not)

Since linkwheels seems to be where most of the attention is focused I'll try and a few thoughts into the mix.

Best I can tell most people do not have a problem with article marketing. This is where you write and article (blog post) and submit it to a number of article directories. One difference is that you also submit it to various web 2.0 networks as well.

The question is why would you do that. Well there are two reasons: first is that fact that a lot of these sites will actually send traffic back to your website. The second is that your site gets a backlink from that site or directory.

Backlinks are a way for the search engines to rank how popular a site is. It works something like this. I sign up for doityourself.com I chose this because it was the #2 search result for "install a toilet" and it ranks well for a number of other contractor related keywords, after I sign up I'm asked if I want to create a profile. Of course I do...this is where people find out about me. Part of most profiles is a place where you can put a link to a site that you find interesting or useful. (not sure if www.doityourself.com has that or not because I have not signed up for them)

The link you is put in that profile page is like a "vote" in the search engine's eyes as to how popular that site is. They use this system because the search engines want to give the searchers the most popular sites out there that are relevant to what they searched for.

Sorry for getting a little off topic, I wanted to give those who didn't know why backlinks are important a little background information.

So back to article marketing...the image below is a screen shot of one of our article directories and some of the names we have published content on. (before I get hate mail on the fact that we have multiple accts, remember we market a lot of our own products as well as products and services for our clients)

The first colum shows the number of time that article was viewed, the next shows the number of time someone clicked on the link in a resource box that took them to a landing page of ours or one of our clients.



7100+ visitors may not seem like a lot but remember...that is from just one article directory...there are 100's of very good ones.

So basically we marketing articles to get visitors to our website and to build backlinks (votes) to our site to increase it's popularity.

Now back to the linkwheel...the term linkwheel is used without much qualification. What I mean by this is the the term is used by many to describe multiple linking schemes (most of which dont work well because they are not thought out)

The typical linkwheel creates and article and then submits it 5 or 6 places and links back to the money site. Then they take that same content and build other wheels around the first batch of content they submitted. (stupid idea)

First is the article...if the same article shows up everywhere most of the content will not get indexed by Google because it is duplicate content. So all those links you are trying to build will not count for anything.

Second...why would I build links to something that is not showing up in the search engines...that's makes not sense and is a complete wasted of time and money.

A different approach would be to submit unique articles to 15 or so articles directories/web 2.0 properties (I would also include videos, do a search on googel for "how to do anything" and you will see a number of videos on the first page). All of these articles would link to the main site but also link to 2 or 3 of the more popular sites.

If I submit a video to Youtube on how to change a light fixture I want that video on the first page of Google...more people will see it and click on my link leading them back to our main page.

Now...is this blackhat? I don't know. I know that in August 2009 we build a site selling Halloween costumes. We used that approach to promote it and sent 20K+ visitors to it in 2 months. That was partly because we timed it with the season but we also targeted keywords that people were searching for.

The goal with any online promotion of your website is to get more visitors to your website at a cost that makes it profitable. What I talked about was just one small part in the process.

But I dont care how good the article is one your website or blog is...if people don't see it it does you no good. In this day and age people are getting smarter about how they promote their product or service on the internet.

If you plan on marketing on the internet it's essential that you have all the tools and knowledge to be able to compete, if you don't your competitors will leave you in their dust...it does not matter how good your service is.

PS..please forgive any misspellings or grammar errors, still on my first cup of coffee

PPS I'm not trying to convince anyone of the value of using this or not using it...just trying to put a few thoughts out there. Remember..."Contempt prior to investigation will leave a man in ever lasting ignorance"
 

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Good Info...

However, your average contractor doesn't need to start learning about link wheels and linking schemes. And in all honesty I think article submissions should be an absolute last resort for a contractor too.

You are 10x better off having that unique and original content on your own website....

Submit the same article to several directories and it basically becomes obsolete thanks to the duplicate content algo. And the link backs are worth essentially NOTHING. Especially considering many article directories won't allow you to use proper anchor text for your links either.

Post that same article on your website (after it's been posted elsewhere) and you risk that page being DROPPED from the index. And that's NOT a good thing.

And as far as the link wheel goes, don't waste your time. Instead seek out other contractors with similar trades in non-competing areas and initiate exchanges. This method is far from dead when the backlinks come from highly relevant sites and the links carry more weight than an article directory.

I've said it on this site many, many, many times... Nothing will propel you through the ranks faster, and give you more staying power than targeted backlinks with your anchor text coming to your site.

Carl
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hope everybody had a good Thanksgiving :)

I'm posting 2 short videos that are on the topic of this thread. I would like to point the diagram I posted is what we you to promote our sites. Seems we are stuck on one part of that process (linkwheels). My suggestion is to look at the other ways we promote websites...especially videos as they are becoming more prevalent these days.

The videos show some actual and dispel some myths that keep popping up. No theory just some visual proof of some of the testing we do.

hope you find them useful...

j

 

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Cool Videos... But far from proof, and they are full of your theory. Most SEO's including myself have our own formulas on attaining rank, it's clear you do to... Nothing wrong with that at all.

When some of the more prominent SEO consultants whom I pay attention to (and have paid for consulting from) start saying it's OK to duplicate content then I will become a believer...

Wether it has happened to you or not, duplicate content gets dropped and de-indexed frequently, I've had it happen on my own websites and to promote that practice or to say it's OK is not something I would do nor would recommend to someone who is depending on their website to generate business.

Spamming out articles to content directories is not a long-term SEO strategy I would ever endorse. For a contractor I think it's better to keep the original content on your website and concentrate on other aspects of SEO.

7100 visitors is great for an article marketing campaign there is nothing wrong with that extra traffic at all! But I don't think a local contractor could expect that kind of exposure though... Maybe after a few years.

My main website will get 7000+ visitors in a day and some of those visitors in fact do come from articles I've written over the last few years but the majority are coming from SERPs and Partnerships with other related websites and affiliates.

Does article marketing work... Yes, of course it can. But it's not a strategy that's going to cure the contractors SEO blues!

Instead it's going to create a bunch more work for them with very little in the form of immediate payoff.

But what do I know... :rolleyes: :laughing:

Carl
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Carl if you can not see the proof that duplicated content gets indexed or that you can have anchor text links in articles submissions when it is right in from of you in black and white I'm not sure what to say...but as far as I am concerned our conversations are over.

You are the reason so many people fail at trying to promote their sites.

PS...not one time did I suggest using dupe content .... I just said it gets indexed ( and proved it)

When some of the more prominent SEO consultants whom I pay attention to (and have paid for consulting from) start saying it's OK to duplicate content then I will become a believer...
The difference between you and I...We test everything we do...we are the consultants....we do not pay to have someone tell us what to do.

My suggestion to you is for you to go out and try some of the concepts you bash...test them...track them and measure the results.

In the mean time....share your experiences of what you do...not what you pay someone to tell you to do.

end of discussion on this matter, I dont have time to continue to prove what you say in inaccurate. The previous two videos document it well enough.

j
 

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Carl if you can not see the proof that duplicated content gets indexed or that you can have anchor text links in articles submissions when it is right in from of you in black and white I'm not sure what to say...but as far as I am concerned our conversations are over.
Do you take your ball and run home everytime somebody challenges something you say on a public forum?

I said MANY article directories don't allow you the proper use of anchor text and others won't allow you to link out from the body of the article.

You are the reason so many people fail at trying to promote their sites.
I'll keep that in mind.

PS...not one time did I suggest using dupe content .... I just said it gets indexed ( and proved it)
Sure it can be indexed... And I said it can be DROPPED just like a hot rock too. I've had it happen, if you'd like me to make a video it could be arranged.

The difference between you and I...We test everything we do...we are the consultants....we do not pay to have someone tell us what to do.
Learning from the people who've been able to achieve similar goals is never a bad form of education or self development.

I guess another major difference between us (You and I) is that when you Google Keywords such as :

"Contractor Website"
"website design for contractors"
"contractor website design"
"seo for contractors"
"contractor seo services"

You'll find my site is often in the #1 spot. Hard to believe I was able to do this without a link wheel, article marketing or web 2.0! Am I saying that stuff is bad...? Not a chance. I am simply saying it's not the best strategy for a contractor and I am sticking to that.

If that's not good enough for you, I have several more #1-3 rankings in Google for many more competitive phrases and keywords as well that I would be happy to share with you. In fact, I can see from your profile that you're a hunter. So am I... If you Google "BC Hunting News" you'll find my blog in the #1 spot. We do share something in common... See? :)

My suggestion to you is for you to go out and try some of the concepts you bash...test them...track them and measure the results.
Thank you, suggestion noted.

In the mean time....share your experiences of what you do...not what you pay someone to tell you to do.
I thought thats what I have been doing...?

end of discussion on this matter, I dont have time to continue to prove what you say in inaccurate. The previous two videos document it well enough.
Well it was nice conversing with you too! Have a good one!

Carl
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
well Carl...I'm curious to see this site....I did a quick search on those keywords and a number of different sites show up. I looked for your url on your contact page I could not find it there.

I'd be interested to know the article directories that do not allow anchor text links...besides ezine articles of course....they are always a pain but good for a lot of traffic...which is what I'm looking for.

As for your opinions, I have yet to see any tangible information that backs up your claims that the items list in the diagram posted above will not work for contractors...I never said they would I said that's how we do things. Not being a contractor and having not promoted a contractors site (yet) I can not say for sure.

But this I will tell...it works for

car dealers
real estate agents
investment advisers
computer software
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hey marketing guys, I was wondering why my website lost so many google inbound links and unique visitors way down form last year in fall. Yahoo and msn are fine. My web designer did change platform of website around that time. I did initiate a post earlier in other marketing area.
I appreciate any feedback. Thanks
Tough to answer without looking at the site (before and after) one of our car dealerships decided to change up their site (against our advice) and it took 6 months to get them back to where they were.

Some other thoughts:

Google and other major search engines have many filters, editors, algorithms, and barriers which are used to prevent spamming or minimize the profitability of overt spam. I believe that Google has moved away from banning sites as much and instead moved to using filters more, because that makes it harder to know when ,why or where something went wrong.

The art of making your link profile look natural is to use inbound links with alternate phrases in the anchor text. If most all of your anchor texts are focused on your core phrase that may preclude your site for being able to rank for that phrase. We ran into this about a year ago. Using different anchor text is important, especially for a new site in a competitive marketplace.

A place to start anyways.

j
 

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well Carl...I'm curious to see this site....I did a quick search on those keywords and a number of different sites show up. I looked for your url on your contact page I could not find it there.
The url is in my profile now. No idea why it left, it was there a few months ago.

I'd be interested to know the article directories that do not allow anchor text links...besides ezine articles of course....they are always a pain but good for a lot of traffic...which is what I'm looking for.
Ezine articles is one of the more prominent ones. Since you're in the article marketing biz I'll leave it up to you to build that list :)

As for your opinions, I have yet to see any tangible information that backs up your claims that the items list in the diagram posted above will not work for contractors...I never said they would I said that's how we do things. Not being a contractor and having not promoted a contractors site (yet) I can not say for sure.
I never once said it wouldn't work... I said it wasn't the BEST method for a contractor to undertake. In my opinion there are better, faster ways to rank. I've posted them here before in many different threads. It's not theory, it works.

Did you check out my hunting blog?

Carl
 

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Kenny,

Someone has definitely put some effort into your link building... Or purchased some links through a link broker/service.

Unfortunately for you, many of your backlinks are coming from sites that are totally unrelated to the services you provide.

Sites like

SanjayaHair.com
Celebstories.info
Brownsugarpoet.net
PAHealthCareers.com
Thelittelillypad.com

There are many more... They appear to be blogs with a collection of articles on different topics, and obviously linking out to the website they are trying to SEO. They are correct in telling you that it's an issue with your linking and if this practice continues it's not going to get any better for you. There is no question Google is discounting (possibly even penalizing you) for some of the untargeted links. How they are optimizing you is borderline spam...

Here is an example of one of the articles: http://www.bigtimehunters.com/66/a-great-reason-to-put-in-vinyl-windows-is-the-energy-tax-credit/

Here is an example of your article amongst the others: http://www.inbedwithfaithvideo.com/ you are down near the bottom.. titled "Tony Had Vinyl Windows....

Basically all the blogs linking to you follow this same format... These blogs were not setup for Human eyes, although the content has been spun, it's for the SE's and that's a no, no.

They have concentrated most their effort around these two phrases.

Vinyl Windows
Replacement Windows

But did not add your geographic location into the anchor text for most of your links. There is a few for Chicago, a few for Illinois and 3 for Naperville that I can see.

Many of the links are also coming from duplicate IP addresses. These are from your providers other clients. This isn't exactly bad, but it's best if your site resides on it's own IP address. It appears MOST of the sites linking to you reside on the same server, with a slightly different IP for some... Not good.

If it were me... I would want my site removed from all of these untargeted and irrelevant blogs and I would be looking up OTHER window companies/suppliers/contractors etc... that were in non-competing states and initiating exchanges with them.

Carl
 

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I agree that the way to get the most visibility to your site is to stress the usage of backlinks, social media networking sites (big 3- Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter) and writing/distributing unique and interesting article content.
 

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Kenny,

Someone has definitely put some effort into your link building... Or purchased some links through a link broker/service.

Unfortunately for you, many of your backlinks are coming from sites that are totally unrelated to the services you provide.

Sites like

SanjayaHair.com
Celebstories.info
Brownsugarpoet.net
PAHealthCareers.com
Thelittelillypad.com

There are many more... They appear to be blogs with a collection of articles on different topics, and obviously linking out to the website they are trying to SEO. They are correct in telling you that it's an issue with your linking and if this practice continues it's not going to get any better for you. There is no question Google is discounting (possibly even penalizing you) for some of the untargeted links. How they are optimizing you is borderline spam...

Here is an example of one of the articles: http://www.bigtimehunters.com/66/a-great-reason-to-put-in-vinyl-windows-is-the-energy-tax-credit/

Here is an example of your article amongst the others: http://www.inbedwithfaithvideo.com/ you are down near the bottom.. titled "Tony Had Vinyl Windows....

Basically all the blogs linking to you follow this same format... These blogs were not setup for Human eyes, although the content has been spun, it's for the SE's and that's a no, no.

They have concentrated most their effort around these two phrases.

Vinyl Windows
Replacement Windows

But did not add your geographic location into the anchor text for most of your links. There is a few for Chicago, a few for Illinois and 3 for Naperville that I can see.

Many of the links are also coming from duplicate IP addresses. These are from your providers other clients. This isn't exactly bad, but it's best if your site resides on it's own IP address. It appears MOST of the sites linking to you reside on the same server, with a slightly different IP for some... Not good.

If it were me... I would want my site removed from all of these untargeted and irrelevant blogs and I would be looking up OTHER window companies/suppliers/contractors etc... that were in non-competing states and initiating exchanges with them.

Carl
Wow I do not understand half of what you said but I believe you know what your talkiing about. I utilize this co. to do my article submissions,blogs. I write some stuff,blogs.. and use them for different campaigns during the year. I guess I need more help and guidance I will attempt to figure some of this out. Thanks for the input
 

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Wow I do not understand half of what you said but I believe you know what your talkiing about.
Great... We're on the same page then! :laughing:

I utilize this co. to do my article submissions,blogs. I write some stuff,blogs.. and use them for different campaigns during the year.
I would advise you to cease using that current method of article promotion.

I guess I need more help and guidance I will attempt to figure some of this out. Thanks for the input
Generally... The harder a back link is to acquire the more weight Google will give it.

If you are into writing articles I will again suggest you start posting them on your actual website.

If you MUST submit them to directories etc... Make it small local directories, community sites etc... Ask to become a guest author, and become an authority in the geographic region you service.

Carl
 
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