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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

Another major issue I have always run into is "Wait time".
I do a lot of small projects around my house (refinishing furniture)
and the biggest issue is usually "Wait Time"

For example,
1st day .....stain 1st coat
2nd day.....stain 2nd coat
3rd day .....possible wait until completely dry.
4th day...1st coat poly
5th day 2nd coat poly
6th day 3rd coat.....

So you see my point. If I had to do this for a living, it would take a week for me to stain & poly an object. (oil base)

I have always been told that OIL is better than latex. However, latex dries in hours VS days with oil.

So my question is:
What do the pros use in their shops?
I remember seeing a guy spray 2 coats of stain & poly in 1 hour!

What the hell do they use?
Where do they buy it?
Thanks again,
Lou
 

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Yep. Conversion varnish to be a little more accurate in the description. Just got in 30 gallon a few weeks ago.
The important thing to remember is to put down some tar paper before you spray. Ambient moisture from the concrete in the shop can causing cupping and grain raise. Some guys use aquabar, but for shop work I find the roofing felt holds up better.
 

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For the non-pro side, you can use aniline dyes in alcohol, shellac, tinted shellac, traditional lacquer, and tinted traditional lacquer. The tinted stuff you mix yourself.

You can also use tinted wax for a filler. I don't recommend you do this on something you care about until you've had some practice.

Off the top of my head, that's all the fast drying stuff that can be wiped or brushed, but the dye is usually sprayed. Spraying any of these is easier.
 

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Finishing with Oil and/or latex stains su** at best. Most topcoats found at the local home improvement store are even worse. (My opinion anyway)

Going oil-less is a cross between art and mad-science. There are tons of books and websites that discuss such things. Google "Water Borne Finishing" Jeff Jewlett (??) a writer for Fine Woodworking has some great books and a website that's designed more for the average person. Youtube is another place to get started, especially if you're new to spray finishing.

Someone mentioned Laquer but for most people, including "semi-pro's" like me that don't have an EPA/OSHA compliant spray booth/shop, it's pretty much out.

I'm more of a hobby finisher than a pro since I don't do finishing every day. There's people here and on other forums that know the science much more than me.

What I Like:

Stains: TransTint Dye, cut with H2O, alcohol or combination of both.

Sealer: Dewaxed Shellac flakes in alcohol. Also the stuff at HD, in a yellow can is pretty good but needs to be thinned a lot, like 50%. (maybe Bulls eye or Zinzer??)

Top Coats: Sherwin Williams KemAqua (but don't know if they sell it to non pros) Target Coatings is pretty good, I like the conversion varnish (EM8000?) can buy online. M.L. Campbell Aqualente (Wurth Wood Group) is a great finish but a little harder to spray but the finished product is outstanding.

Tinted topcoats/toner: Adds depth to the finish. Transtint or sometimes universal tint (Tints-All) Unlike laquer and oil finishes, most water borne finishes dry very clear So I almost always tone a few layers of finish.

I've found once people start learning and using waterborne finishes, they usually don't go back to "oil" or "latex". However, these finishes still do have their places. (I love the look and feel of wipe on poly) Water borne finishes aren't cheap, I think I pay somewhere around $70 gal for the M.L. Campbell. Most all this stuff requires spraying. I'm not aware of any GOOD wipe/brush waterborne products but they may be out there somewhere.

Most times the above can all be completed in less than a day, not including the final rub and polish
 

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I am a fan of Target Coatings stains and top coats. The stain dries in an hour, the top coat is brushable but spraying is easier.

I just completed a few things using Old Masters wipe on poly which I like a lot but takes hours to dry. Smooth as can be with little or no sanding.

The refinishers that I do work for usually seal everything and then tone it, real quick, great results, but they have a spray room
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Wow, you guys have given me a lot to think about.
At the stage I am at, it's a little too to switch.
At my current stage, It seems that I need a few more coats to cover the heavy oak grain. After that, I have to make a choice to either leave the final coat as is, or wet sand (possibly dulling the high gloss finish) or adding a wax paste on it. (as someone suggested)
My only concern with a wax paste is that if I don't like it (or screw it up) I will not be able to re spray over wax.

But in the future, I will try dyes or any other fast drying bases.
 

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Wow, you guys have given me a lot to think about.
At the stage I am at, it's a little too to switch.
At my current stage, It seems that I need a few more coats to cover the heavy oak grain. After that, I have to make a choice to either leave the final coat as is, or wet sand (possibly dulling the high gloss finish) or adding a wax paste on it. (as someone suggested)
My only concern with a wax paste is that if I don't like it (or screw it up) I will not be able to re spray over wax.

But in the future, I will try dyes or any other fast drying bases.
Before going the route of wax, you might want to get you some pumice & rottenstone & put some elbow grease into wet polishing the table if you want a high gloss, mirror smooth finish. If you can find an old felt hat, it works great for hand polishing. Try youtube & see if there's not some videos available.

In the future, get some pre catalyzed lacquer & a cheap gravity feed spray gun & start playing with spraying. You can put multiple coats on in one day & it's pretty user friendly.
 

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lou4uandme said:
But in the future, I will try dyes or any other fast drying bases.
Just about anything BUT Minwax.

And I know this has been said before, but get rid of the "valleys" in oak, a pore filler works very well before you lay down the first coat of finish.

FWIW: Some people like the "texture" of unfilled oak.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
yeah it's too late for me. I already have 3 coats of clear.
But speaking of filler:
I noticed that in the video that is posted above, the filler seemed to be a solid color. Does it change the color of the wood? Also, can it be applied over 2 coats of stain?
 

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Hang on.

I'll go back and watch the vid, in a bit.

The pore filler usually goes dark, but:

It's usually applied after the sanding sealer, so that it does not interfere with the stain color...

I may get blasted for that, so let me check the vid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Before going the route of wax, you might want to get you some pumice & rottenstone & put some elbow grease into wet polishing the table if you want a high gloss, mirror smooth finish. If you can find an old felt hat, it works great for hand polishing. Try youtube & see if there's not some videos available.

In the future, get some pre catalyzed lacquer & a cheap gravity feed spray gun & start playing with spraying. You can put multiple coats on in one day & it's pretty user friendly.

I tried lacquer once many years ago. I remembered that it reacted with the coat underneath. It kind of reactivate the 1st coat. I also remembered I said to myself "I'll never work with Laquer again"

So the pumice or rottenstone, do I just rub it by hand?
 

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Fillers can be any color. They can be applied at any time, but usually after sealing so there isn't any penetration into the wood. If you try a filler after a couple coats of poly, it's going to look weird.

Yes, you hand rub rottenstone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
OK One last question:
What is the difference between "waterborne" vs Latex?
I tried google and I ran across " Dayco's new Alkyd Waterborne Stain"
To me, that translates to Dayco's Oil Water stain"

So I am confused
 

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OK One last question:
What is the difference between "waterborne" vs Latex?
I tried google and I ran across " Dayco's new Alkyd Waterborne Stain"
To me, that translates to Dayco's Oil Water stain"

So I am confused
Ever had vinegar and oil salad dressing? Same idea, but formulating the waterborne oils, urethanes, etc isn't as simple.

I don't like the term "latex". It's now used for all kinds of stuff that isn't actually latex.
 

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Ever had vinegar and oil salad dressing? Same idea, but formulating the waterborne oils, urethanes, etc isn't as simple.

I don't like the term "latex". It's now used for all kinds of stuff that isn't actually latex.
If anything, waterbornes are acylic, not latex.
 

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The latex/acrylic miss use drives me crazy! Lots of major companies are guilty of misrepresenting their product this way. You have to read the contents of a product to know what it is. SW is one of these companies. It goes back to the fact that the original waterborne paints were ALL latex. Most consumers are not informed enough to know the difference so they still call all of their waterborne products "latex".
 

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Fillers can be any color. They can be applied at any time, but usually after sealing so there isn't any penetration into the wood. If you try a filler after a couple coats of poly, it's going to look weird.

Yes, you hand rub rottenstone.
To add: Some grain fillers are clear, many grain fillers can be tinted. Using colored fillers can make for some very interesting looks.
 
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