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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First a painter I am not, but over the last 20 or so years I have done enough to know the proper materials, equipment etc just not my everyday thing. . I rarely paint for clients unless it is a touch up or ultra small on a repair we have done. Now the problem a 3x18 hallway remodel 10 to 15 year old latex (eggshell sheen), scuff sanded primed with Kilz premium tinted a shade lighter than topcoat. Top coated with Ben Moore Regal select. Now fast forward wall gets nicked. I come in to do a sand skim and coat on the damaged area. When sanding the paint starts peeling and keeps peeling. Evidently the kilz did not even think of sticking. So we are looking at stripping sanding and repainting at least this one section. To prime, not to prime, ( zinnser, kilz,oil based, latex) first time I ever had a problem with kilz but now I'm gun shy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah walls were swept off then a good vacuuming of walls and floor to get rid of any lingering dust. Before primer was applied walls were also wiped down with a tack cloth. I try to be by the book and thorough but I missed the boat somewhere on this one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Davinci you are right on the money. Full time fireman and part time contracting, or it could be the other way around lol.
 

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Peel it as much as you can, skim w/mudd, try again.

Your rags are dirty. Wash the caulk off them. Actually, go get new ones. This was something pointed out to me in a training class I took in january. Just because you wash your rags does NOT mean you are removing residue from caulks. They may appear clean, but its there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Driftweed said:
Peel it as much as you can, skim w/mudd, try again. Your rags are dirty. Wash the caulk off them. Actually, go get new ones. This was something pointed out to me in a training class I took in january. Just because you wash your rags does NOT mean you are removing residue from caulks. They may appear clean, but its there.
No rags were used after the walls were vacuumed, just brand new tack cloths from fresh unopened packages. They are cheap insurance in my opinion so I like to use new ones each time.
I peeled back to a corner on one side and the other nice big sheets. Sanded again with some 100 then 220 took most of the previous paint coat off this time instead of just scuffing it. Just trying to decide on primer for this time. But it will not be kilz premium again. However I guess it could have been a bad batch but to be safe I would like to use something else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
One thing I did notice though is the primer had that tacky feel to it when I went to apply the first topcoat the next day. You know the one when latex paint does not cure and just remains tacky forever. Did not really think a lot about it at the time but I am wondering now
 

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Hmm.. killz is usually a good brand. I would definitely talk to the BM dealer about whats happening. Personally, i have zero experience with that brand.

Generally, paint adhesion issues boil downt to contamination. And usually that comes from equipment like dirty rags/brushes or a poorly cleaned surface.

Seems like you did good using new rags & sanding. Maybe two different paints in brush/roller?

You got, me bud. Seems to be a good topic for my next visit with my supplier.
 

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Remember when all the paint formulations were changed to lower VOCs?:whistling

Not even Kilz Original is original.

A LOT of primers will fail a tape test, it's one of the more common problems around. Even on brand new drywall. 10-15 year old paint can have some surprises of its own - I've seen paint that was "cleaned" with some cleaner that absorbed into it, then I had a heck of a time getting it clean enough to get paint to stick. Who knows what may have happened with your project. If you're just painting over paint, you're better off to just use paint and skip the primer.
 

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One thing I did notice though is the primer had that tacky feel to it when I went to apply the first topcoat the next day. You know the one when latex paint does not cure and just remains tacky forever. Did not really think a lot about it at the time but I am wondering now
Maybe high humidity, but I haven't seen it high enough to make Kilz Premium sticky, so I'm thinking probably something like a cleaner absorbed into the wall paint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Driftweed said:
Hmm.. killz is usually a good brand. I would definitely talk to the BM dealer about whats happening. Personally, i have zero experience with that brand. Generally, paint adhesion issues boil downt to contamination. And usually that comes from equipment like dirty rags/brushes or a poorly cleaned surface. Seems like you did good using new rags & sanding. Maybe two different paints in brush/roller? You got, me bud. Seems to be a good topic for my next visit with my supplier.
All very good thoughts Driftwood. I can rule out roller contamination as well. Used a brand new Wooster 3/8 nap poly roller cover for the kilz even use a lint roller on my covers before use to remove loose nap and cut down on shedding in the paint. I agree always had good results with kilz products but I have seen a lot of other guys complaining about the kilz latex products lately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
hdavis said:
Remember when all the paint formulations were changed to lower VOCs?:whistling Not even Kilz Original is original. A LOT of primers will fail a tape test, it's one of the more common problems around. Even on brand new drywall. 10-15 year old paint can have some surprises of its own - I've seen paint that was "cleaned" with some cleaner that absorbed into it, then I had a heck of a time getting it clean enough to get paint to stick. Who knows what may have happened with your project. If you're just painting over paint, you're better off to just use paint and skip the primer.
You are exactly right about the adverse effects of all of the green paint formulations with low VOCs. You are also right on with the fact that there is no telling what was put on that wall in the last 15 or so years before my new paint job.
 

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I've had thibgs like hairspray residue stump me in bathrooms. But since you said hallway, that wouldnt be the case. Also, incense sticks & candles will get you too.
But yeah, if that primer failed ya, don't do it twice. Maybe go acrylic or oil primer.

I must admit, you've piqued my interest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
We Fix Houses said:
Sounds like you're going to be a new Zinser customer ?
Quite possibly. Never tried the Zinser primers but I've heard good things about it. I'll probably be trying it in the near future.
 

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Masterchem (maker of Kilz) might be interested in lab testing that. I'd contact them. Maybe you can get some freebies too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
instock said:
Masterchem (maker of Kilz) might be interested in lab testing that. I'd contact them. Maybe you can get some freebies too.
Had not really thought about that. Would you contact them directly or through a dealer as a warranty type issue
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You would think that the product manufacturers would have somebody trolling these sites to find out how their products are performing. I know the guy from trim tex is on the drywall sites all the time.
 
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