Permits - you or the homeowner?
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You should pull the permit if for no other reason than it lists you as the contractor. This can have some serious legal ramifications especially if someone is injured on the job.
Also, getting the HO to pull them is the way a lot of backbiters work.
Also, getting the HO to pull them is the way a lot of backbiters work.
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What Teetor said. Be a pro and pull the permit. No homeowner would ever agree to pull a permit for your job if he really knew the ramifications.
We require our homeowner's to pull the permit IF they want to do a portion of the work themselves such as setting fixtures. If we pull the permit we MUST do the job from start to finish as we will be held responsible for the work if anything is not done properly.
I'm about 50-50 on whether me or the homeowner pulls the permit, - - I actually 'prefer' for the homeowner to pull it, - - things are pretty corrupt around here, - - I get less 'leaned on' if I'm out of the loop.
Though it would be perfectly normal for the inspectors to require 'licensed' tradesman, - - around here they even want to tell you which 'ones' it better be.
Not too hard to figure out exactly who all's hands are in the cookie jar.
Though it would be perfectly normal for the inspectors to require 'licensed' tradesman, - - around here they even want to tell you which 'ones' it better be.
Not too hard to figure out exactly who all's hands are in the cookie jar.
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ugh, I can't even fathom doing a project with the homeowner installing fixtures or anything else in the middle of the project.hauoli63 said:
The worst thing I have accepted is letting the homeowner do something before I start like demo or something after I finish like paint, but I can't even imagine the cluster F#ck that would ensue with having the homeowner do anything in the middle of the job. I'm getting shudders just imagining them taking 3 full days to install a faucet, between sprints to the Internet for instructions from the manufacturer, ordering missing parts they lost between the box and the sink, not to mention them damaging something else associated with what they are doing like the shut-off valves or something else.
Involving the homeowner in the permitting process has worked pretty well for me so far. Most of these I've done are where the owner pulls the building permit and I do a portion of the addition or remodel and the owner does the demo or anything else he feels qualified to do. He is acting as the general contractor and of course has to hire licensed people to do electrical, plumbing, and H&A and get the required inspections.
I'm doing an addition now for a guy and all we are doing is the concrete, frame, and roofing. He is savvy enough to take it from there and save himself some money in the process. I get to move on to the next one.
R
I'm doing an addition now for a guy and all we are doing is the concrete, frame, and roofing. He is savvy enough to take it from there and save himself some money in the process. I get to move on to the next one.
R
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Having the HO listed as 'contractor' leaves you as an employee. Technically, they are required to withhold and pay SS, FICA, and all of that other fun stuff.
Also, if they decide to stick it to you in the end, you will have a lot more clout being the contractor as opposed to being an employee.
Also, if they decide to stick it to you in the end, you will have a lot more clout being the contractor as opposed to being an employee.
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I stand corrected on that. I was thinking of another job at the time.
I guess some homeowners are willing to take the time out of their day and go thru the process to pull a permit for their project, and then deal with getting bids and deciding who to go with on each phase of construction...many are not.
Most want one person to handle all of the headaches and be the go-to man/woman when decisions need to be made or when problems arise. I have worked with both kinds, and as long as its clear what portion of the job I'm responsible for, I'm willing to let the homeowner get his hands dirty.
RJS
Most want one person to handle all of the headaches and be the go-to man/woman when decisions need to be made or when problems arise. I have worked with both kinds, and as long as its clear what portion of the job I'm responsible for, I'm willing to let the homeowner get his hands dirty.
RJS
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That's a really good summation of who a homeowner who wants to be a GC on their project in order to save money is. Also exactly the description of the customer I would thank for his time and walk away from, actually run away from as fast as possible.RJS said:
I definitly want only the customers who are of the type want one person to handle all of the headaches and be the go-to man/woman when decisions need to be made or when problems arise. - that's the type of customer who is willing to pay my company handsomely for my skills and appreciates a company that takes the pain away from them. The other guy who wants to GC it is way too price sensitive about everything. I have no desire to be a sub to a real GC, let alone an amateur one! I'm not saying that there isn't money to be made working with the amateur GC, but there is WAY more to be made working for the other type of customer.
I was pulling a permit today and the HO in front of me in line was disputing the $4,000.00 fine she received for working without a permit.
I was never so happy in my life to see a DIYer have to eat it like that.
Apparently, they filed for the permit, but did not wait for the permit to be approved. She claimed that she was a new homeowner and didn't know they needed a permit. The inspector said, "But you filed for a permit, so you knew you needed one...duh" (he didn't say duh) A neighbor ratted them out and the rest is history. The Bldg Insp was not budging on the $4k.
I was never so happy in my life to see a DIYer have to eat it like that.
Apparently, they filed for the permit, but did not wait for the permit to be approved. She claimed that she was a new homeowner and didn't know they needed a permit. The inspector said, "But you filed for a permit, so you knew you needed one...duh" (he didn't say duh) A neighbor ratted them out and the rest is history. The Bldg Insp was not budging on the $4k.
I'll give you an example, - - the job I'm doing right now is a small addition, - - the homeowner just wants the 'shell' built, - - complete and weatherproof, - - he wants to do all the inside work himself (including the electric). Therefore I told him to go get the permits and call me when they're ready. He's allowed to 'sign off' on the electric, - - I'm not.747 said:
This basically means I'm the framing, siding, and roofing sub.
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Tom, why not take that as a contractor and let him do the finish work on his own?
Well, - - because the pay is the same (my call), - - and if 'I' were the contractor I would have to get the 'stamp' of a licensed electrician to get the paperwork approved, - - and most licensed electricians aren't interested in stamping work that the homeowner is actually performing, - - simply too much liability.Teetorbilt said:
Here's another thing, - - if I take it on as the 'contractor', - - I'm responsible for the whole job, - - which after the exterior is done, - - I actually have nothing to do with.
With him getting the permits, - - I'm done once I get the 'framing' inspection and I install the siding.
I get paid and move on, - - the homeowner is on his own after that, - - any 'problems' are of his own creation.
With him getting the permits, - - I'm done once I get the 'framing' inspection and I install the siding.
I get paid and move on, - - the homeowner is on his own after that, - - any 'problems' are of his own creation.
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