Sounds like moisture or water got in there...

 

but the drywall doesn't have water damage on it, no stains, no drips, nothing. the paper is dry and not soft/rotted.

the siding part yeah. water is getting in those bubbles of paint somehow. but i'm not sure where it's coming from at this point. the garage is where i really need to figure out the best solution. i've never seen drywall peel to bare paper like it was new.

 

but the drywall doesn't have water damage on it, no stains, no drips, nothing. the paper is dry and not soft/rotted.

the siding part yeah. water is getting in those bubbles of paint somehow. but i'm not sure where it's coming from at this point. the garage is where i really need to figure out the best solution. i've never seen drywall peel to bare paper like it was new.

It don't have to show signs of water, sometimes if enough moisture will gets behind the rock, the tape will start to come off and just a matter of time before the moisture gets behind the paint and it will bubble. Same thing you will see on older windows with a few layers of paint, the paint will crack, bubble and peel away, or the paint looks good, and if you touch it, your finger will go right through, because the wood will start to rot from inside out.

 

Unheated garages should be painted with exterior primer/paint. If new construction, doubt that was done. Before I tear out walls, I would remove what you can, prime and repaint with exterior products and keep your eye on it.
In the areas of the worst peeling on the siding, what rooms are on the other side of the most failed areas? Curious if the "bags of water", I've seen them before, with no apparent source of external penetration, are opposite a bathroom or laundry room.
Does the house have proper ventilation with respect to soffit/ridge vents?
I'm not a builder, but doesn't foamboard have some vapor barrier effect?

 

I don't think this foam board is a real vapor barrier as it's not taped and it's only 1/2 thick. I am not the painter for the homeowner. He just asked me what was causing the peeling paint.

Weird thing about the water in the siding(which is not near the garage at all. is that there is no bathroom near there. There are soffit vents and gable end vents, in the summer, the thermostatic fan kicks on when it get hot enough. No ridge vent but it's not really needed with the soffit and gable vents.

it's just very odd in the garage to have one wall be completely normal that has heat on the opposite side and then the one that is just cold on both sides be peeling.

 

I don't think this foam board is a real vapor barrier as it's not taped and it's only 1/2 thick. I am not the painter for the homeowner. He just asked me what was causing the peeling paint.

Weird thing about the water in the siding(which is not near the garage at all. is that there is no bathroom near there. There are soffit vents and gable end vents, in the summer, the thermostatic fan kicks on when it get hot enough. No ridge vent but it's not really needed with the soffit and gable vents.

it's just very odd in the garage to have one wall be completely normal that has heat on the opposite side and then the one that is just cold on both sides be peeling.

Paint doesn't fail in the cold because it's cold, it fails because it's not the proper finish for the cold. I've known painters to paint unheated garages with interior paint. Wrong! Interior paint can't handle large temp ranges. Obviously the heat coming through the one wall is enough to stabilize the finish. Ask the guy who painted the garage and what product they used. Or, the cold and a lack of proper primer could be a possibility.
The problem with moisture failure is that damage doesn't always occur in a logical relation to the source, unlike rain coming through a hole in the roof and damaging a ceiling. And the smallest of breaches over the long term can cause significant damage even before it's discovered. It sometimes takes thinking outside the box and close examination of all joins and portals. A job I would leave for those responsible to fix.

 

well. if i wasn't trying to fix the paint. i wanted to tell him to tear out the drywall and put new drywall in, then have it painted properly.

 

However you go about resolving the issue just be sure to use exterior paint because, even after all that replacement, if the garage is unheated failure is still a possibility. As I said, the little bit of heat coming through the right wall is probably enough to offset the cold side and keep the paint surface temp out of the extremes.

 

I just noticed this a NJ specific thread, where are you from Greg?
Where is Stockton, in north jersey?

 

I just noticed this a NJ specific thread, where are you from Greg?
Where is Stockton, in north jersey?

Central Jersey, near Princeton

 

I"m originally from Philly, just outside near Media.

 

Extreme temp changes of +/- 10-15F can cause interior paint to fail over time. like 6 months.

I have been witness to this first hand in my shop, after switching completely over to wood instead of using the natural gas furnace + the wood. I do keep the building above freezing all winter however the temp varies widely, sometimes going down to 40F and then rising back up to 65F. in a single day.

And the paint on the cieling is coming off in sheets LOL

 

Stockton is on the western side of the state, right along the delaware river. I am in the zipcode of stockton but not in the boro. The boro is right near the river, I'm about 2 miles from the river. Lambertville and Flemington are the closest bigger named towns you might know.

Greg, you are near princeton? I work over there every so often, and the surrounding areas.

 

Stockton is on the western side of the state, right along the delaware river. I am in the zipcode of stockton but not in the boro. The boro is right near the river, I'm about 2 miles from the river. Lambertville and Flemington are the closest bigger named towns you might know.

Greg, you are near princeton? I work over there every so often, and the surrounding areas.

New Hope, Lumbertville, nice area, we go up there for dinner in the summer time and hit a few bars, they also got some nice restaurants... about 20 min from me.

 

For the siding peeling, is the foam foil faced and does it peel more in areas that get direct sunlight?

 

yes, foil faced and yes it does get more sun on the back side of the house. but there is still pockets of water stuck in the large bubbles of the paint.

i see what you are saying though. it's heat being radiated off from the foil.

thanks!

 

Moisture condenses on the foil and migrates through the cedar pushing all coatings off. Seems to happen most on sun facing sides due to how moisture condenses as temperature changes more radically.

 

Peeling Paint

first of all you have to correct the moisture problem. There seems to be three issues here. One , question would be , how old is the siding. If it isn't dried properly , it will release moisture until the siding has had time to dry out. Second, the house may not be vented properly. In colder areas people usually have a open foundation and metal vents are placed in the block walls there. Some homes have roof vent and are vented that way. Either way, you have to have a release for all the heat building in the house. Other wise it's like a boiling pot of water, ever seen the moisture on the outside of a pot with a lid on it ? Third and not lease, under the foam board you HAVE to have a rubber or foil membrane , or the siding will continue to sweat and the wood will rot away. The house may already be insulated well enough, but not vent as it should be.The paint isn't the issue here, stop the moisture. Then repaint with 100% acrylic primer and paint . I sure hope something is helpful.

 

the house is from the 1980s, the siding coming off is not going to happen, at least with this owner. he has gable vents and a powered thermostatic roof fan, along with soffit vents. I believe it's the foil faced rigid foam. how builders got away with sheathing walls with just foam is beyond me. that has got to be the stupidest way to sheath a wall. it's one thing to have foam over plywood, but there is a vapor barrier. tthis house has no vapor barrier other than the foam insulation board. I also believe that the siding might have caulk under each lap. I was at another job this past week and the painters were there, the east/south facing side of the house had just a few spots where the paint was bubbling. This is an insulated house. older farm house, with felt paper behind the siding, which was installed in 1997, rest of the walls have no issues. The painter there said it was because someone took caulk and caulked all the laps in the siding. He was in the process of removing most of that caulk so the siding could breath.
I think this might be the same culprit at the original house I was talking about. the isn't NEW there, so it has had time to dry out. I just think there is moisture coming from inside that isn't escaping out the roof for whatever reason. or the foil faced foam board is radiating heat back through the siding and causing the paint to peel and bubble.

 

Just a thought, but I was always under the impression that cedar can be stained but should not be painted.

All the shore homes we built in the 80s were done with opaque stain, which according to the painters, allows the siding/fascia to breathe.

I was also told that the tannins in the cedar would not allow a strong bond with paint.

I'm no coatings specialist, but thought I'd ante up my 2 cents.:thumbsup:

 

An interesting article on the matter of finishes. Guess I was mis-informed. :whistling

Still, depends on how long the material is weathered before application.

http://www.cedar-siding.org/cedar-siding-installation/painting-cedar-siding/finishes.aspx

 

If I could write the check for this guy, I would tear it all off the house, tear off all the foam board. Sheath the walls, Tyvek, and then installed hardie backer. I am not sure I can talk the guy into that because it's not peeling all over. The house should never have been build without a vapor barrier. I agree with you lone, I always make sure we use oil stain when doing new cedar, solid color stain. Never LATEX.

 

First coat oil or first stain job. Acrylic after that is better.

 

The sanding closed the pores on it or the primer was not oil. some state you cant buy oil except in quarts. did they clean the dust off after sanding latex wont absorb dust without amallsabond <----Dont know how to spell that ward. The paint will sit on it and pill after its drys. I just reread your post looks like you have a moster problum Is there hi humidity there.it does alot of damig and you dont know were its coming from.

 

The humidity can be high in the summer. I think it's because the siding laps are caulked or sealed too much and it's not breathing. this house has two issues one is some peeling/bubbles on the south/east facing side (not all of it got sanded to bare wood, just scraped and sanded smooth so you can't see the other layers). the second issue is the peeling paint off the inside garage ceiling and exterior wall off the drywall.

 

The humidity can be high in the summer. I think it's because the siding laps are caulked or sealed too much and it's not breathing.

I was taught not to caulk the bottom of lapped siding for exactly the reason of not "breathing" & getting bubbles , blisters etc...

 

the contractor have covered some very good issues a lot of painters caulk to much trapping moister . even though staining is better its already painted . if half of it is insulated in the winter the heated half could meet the unheated and make condensation for the interior failing. you've covered venting that was my next thought. but a lot of time the venting is blocked off on section areas causing areas to pill. bottom line to me is ceder dont hold paint all that well. so original someone decided they wonted it painted. ps im shear the owner will let you rite the check

 

yeah. i'm going to have to talk to the customer again. I haven't been back over there. I didn't hire the painter, it was done a few years ago. I think the laps need to be opened up and the caulk cut out then touched up/repainted. If cedar isn't done right from the start, it's a disaster from there on out.