Pay a sub

It depends.

What does your subcontractor agreement state? Is the work up to industry standards? Is the work completed?

jhark123 said:

It depends. What does your subcontractor agreement state? Is the work up to industry standards? Is the work completed?

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Subcontractor agreement states no monies will be paid until work is satisfactorily completed. Right now I am debating to tear it all off again and re do it myself (roof). Subbed about 50k to these guys last year without any problem.

This is the grey between the black and the white.

How fvcked is it?

Document exactly what is not meeting industry standards for that type of work, right down to manufacturers instructions/specifications/code requirements. Maybe even have a manufacturers rep come out and take a look. Back up with hard facts, not just emotional feelings.

Approach with the facts like a business man and see how it goes.

There already has been a crew of four out there doing repairs for 5 hours. There's probably at least 8 hours of repairs left because the next ones are the hard ones.

I can't even get into the list of problems because I don't have that much time to type. It's small stuff from exposed nails not being caulked all the way to boards not being replaced and 3ft of IW being installed instead of 6ft.

Basically, it's the type of work we all bash against.

You have to back charge him. And it needs to be clean. Meaning a manufacturers approved rep has visited and written a report, he has to be given an opportunity to repair it himself in a reasonable time frame. After you have dotted all your i's and crossed all your t's then you can proceed.

This is all the proper way to do it.

Sounds like he made a mess, fix it and take the amount off his cheque for the repair and if he takes you to court, chances are it will be small claims so let the judge figure it out.

Obviously you are not using him again

It has been 9 days since completion and maybe 2/3rds of repairs are done. Luckily, this homeowner isn't tough. We have siding damaged that's no longer made and a lot of things that can't be repaired so I agreed to take $750 off the bill and fix everything else.

What really irks me is that I went out of my way to help get this guy started (old acquaintance from HS). I basically put him in contact with everyone he does work for now and for my job to be treated like this really irks me. I also pay him about 20% more than average.

It's very frustrating.

Sounds like its time to add a back charge contingency to your con tract including a clause that you will have the installation inspected buy a suppliers rep. Include an hourly cost for repair work and perhaps a percentage cap on repair say if more than 30 percent needs to be repaired that it will be considered a total loss and the sub will pay you to do the work. If that doesnt scare them straight nothing will.

You can back-charge him to make it right, but you can't just keep the money...

KAP said:

You can back-charge him to make it right, but you can't just keep the money...

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What happens if the back charge is more than the amount owed?

There is a chance that the project needs to be completely redone.

BamBamm5144 said:

What happens if the back charge is more than the amount owed?

There is a chance that the project needs to be completely redone.

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Sounds like you ****ed yourself...Next time do your homework !

blacktop said:

Sounds like you ****ed yourself...Next time do your homework !

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Read the thread. These guys did slightly over 50k worth of sub work for me last year, over 15 jobs just fine. I had 20k worth of work already scheduled for them.

No idea what happened on this one.

BamBamm5144 said:

What happens if the back charge is more than the amount owed?

There is a chance that the project needs to be completely redone.

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I don't know how you are going to stand on the fact you haven't given any money yet, but it will cost more to redo it, when you had enough to sub it out in the first place...

KAP said:

I don't know how you are going to stand on the fact you haven't given any money yet, but it will cost more to redo it, when you had enough to sub it out in the first place...

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I'm not really that worried about having anything come back to me if I flat out refuse to pay (which I won't as long as everything is fixed according to our subcontractor agreement).

The job was not done to industry standards. It's an unacceptable job. Roof wise, there have been more issues on this one job than all of my other roofs combined.

Luckily for me, I have a very patient owner. Not luckily for me, I've also now lost the other two projects I was going to do for him.

BamBamm5144 said:

I'm not really that worried about having anything come back to me if I flat out refuse to pay (which I won't as long as everything is fixed according to our subcontractor agreement).

The job was not done to industry standards. It's an unacceptable job. Roof wise, there have been more issues on this one job than all of my other roofs combined.

Luckily for me, I have a very patient owner. Not luckily for me, I've also now lost the other two projects I was going to do for him.

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Just curious, what does this guy have to say for himself and has he offered to fix it at his cost?

You should explain to him he cost you business...

Your in a pickle. You may gain respect from that customer however the neighbors will wonder wtf is that new roof coming off.

If that's the case- you are taking the roof off upgrade and change the color. Wrong color is easier to comprehend than bad workmanship from the neighbors perspective.

Be glad the owner is cool but be weary how long that will last.

He has said he will fix it. Roughly half has been fixed. These issues were first mentioned to him the day after. He apologized profusely. Now it's been hard to get him back to do the rest.

I don't think we will need to tear it off. The biggest thing was not installing the IW Shield how I had it written in the work order and contract with the homeowner.

Homeowner is fine with leaving how it is as long as a substantial discount is given.

Discount away brotha.

And how much of that discount should I eat vs pass on