Paint house with brushes ONLY No rollers!
A former customer of mine who I have done extensive plaster work for, asked if I did exterior painting... now given the name of my business, one would naturally assume that I do painting... :laughing::whistling
they have a 2.5 story house, with wood siding that hubby stripped down to bare wood some 40 years ago.
the last two painters that painted the exterior.. One sprayed it. the other rolled it, then tipped it out... they didnt like the results of either..
She would like me to brush the the house. :blink:
I figure, about 2 weeks, give or take a day to paint the entire exterior with brush and roller. a week to spray it (needs a little bit of repair here and there)
but brush the ENTIRE house?! :blink:
is there some sort of multiplier i can use to come up with a time frame/price? i realise production rates are variable but there has to be a happy medium, not to mention brushing is much more labor intensive!
Or should I give a ball park price than do T&M?
they have a 2.5 story house, with wood siding that hubby stripped down to bare wood some 40 years ago.
the last two painters that painted the exterior.. One sprayed it. the other rolled it, then tipped it out... they didnt like the results of either..
She would like me to brush the the house. :blink:
I figure, about 2 weeks, give or take a day to paint the entire exterior with brush and roller. a week to spray it (needs a little bit of repair here and there)
but brush the ENTIRE house?! :blink:
is there some sort of multiplier i can use to come up with a time frame/price? i realise production rates are variable but there has to be a happy medium, not to mention brushing is much more labor intensive! Or should I give a ball park price than do T&M?
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Could you spray and back brush this one?
This is how they painted houses before all this fancy stuff. All it takes is time. Charge them T&M with no price limits.
T&M
No need to worry about getting paid. Have them cut you a check at the end of every week.
No need to worry about getting paid. Have them cut you a check at the end of every week.
Did you ask them why? Are the painter's using crap paint and it's not holding up? I can only guess it's because they feel brushing will give a higher quality job. Essentially it's already been brushed by the last painter. A total brush job will look like crap. I'd offer 2 coats sprayed.
That's how they did everything back in the day. But it was oil base. When the roller pole came out they called them idiot sticks.
That's how they did everything back in the day. But it was oil base. When the roller pole came out they called them idiot sticks.
No, T&M is asking for a lawsuit when you get 2/3 of the way done and they've reached their budget limit. I find brushing usually takes twice as long so I'd figure a month to paint if you think rolling is two weeks. But realistically I would probably turn it down. If they think they know more about painting than you, they should paint it themselves.
Could anyone afford you on T&M if you could only use hand saws and chisels to build a homes cabinetry?
I painted a house where I sprayed all the trim and painted all the lap siding with a 6" brush..... Not sure why I did it that way.... Turned out great, but wouldn't do it again..... I was young and still learning to be productive..... Didn't loose my A** so it went ok.
If the chiseled look is what they want then it's a premium. If brushed is what they want it's a premium.
Seen it done before on a one story house. Charge them three times as much. Wear wrist braces. :laughing:
Working off a ladder only, I'll get about 350 sq ft a day of 4" reveal clapboards with a 4" brush. Working on the ground or off an Alumapole, I'll get easily 600 sq ft an hour.
None of that includes cutting, just open wall.
I'm pretty fast with a brush, and for something like this I use an old set of Sherwin Williams Wave brushes. They hold a ton of paint, and I load them very very heavily (brush out of the can about half full, and slap the sides after dipping - forces the paint up into the well. If the brush is drippy, slap harder).
Fast is what you want to be if you're brushing exteriors - there is very little time for leveling, so avoiding over brushing and being done quick gets a much much better looking job. That, and working out your application strokes to have the last stroke go into the prior wet edge - like tipping off, but it's an actual stroke, just a little lighter toward the end. The brush marks should be there, but not terribly noticeable, and they should follow the clapboards. I generally use a 3 stroke pattern for a brush load, but on a rough surface it can go to 5 strokes.
No offense to anyone, but a lot of pros go too slow to get a good brush job. Just work out your loading method, see how far it will go and your application pattern, then go as fast as you can and still maintain consistency / control.
The problem with doing brush work like this as T&M is you are going to be working your butte off to do it well, so you better boost your rate. It's better to take a break than slow down - there will be a noticeable difference in the brush marks if your speed is varying.
Old house exteriors around here tend to be brushed, period. The old oil paints dried slow enough you could take your time and they'd still level pretty well. It's a traditional look for a traditional house, but tough to get with current paints.
None of that includes cutting, just open wall.
I'm pretty fast with a brush, and for something like this I use an old set of Sherwin Williams Wave brushes. They hold a ton of paint, and I load them very very heavily (brush out of the can about half full, and slap the sides after dipping - forces the paint up into the well. If the brush is drippy, slap harder).
Fast is what you want to be if you're brushing exteriors - there is very little time for leveling, so avoiding over brushing and being done quick gets a much much better looking job. That, and working out your application strokes to have the last stroke go into the prior wet edge - like tipping off, but it's an actual stroke, just a little lighter toward the end. The brush marks should be there, but not terribly noticeable, and they should follow the clapboards. I generally use a 3 stroke pattern for a brush load, but on a rough surface it can go to 5 strokes.
No offense to anyone, but a lot of pros go too slow to get a good brush job. Just work out your loading method, see how far it will go and your application pattern, then go as fast as you can and still maintain consistency / control.
The problem with doing brush work like this as T&M is you are going to be working your butte off to do it well, so you better boost your rate. It's better to take a break than slow down - there will be a noticeable difference in the brush marks if your speed is varying.
Old house exteriors around here tend to be brushed, period. The old oil paints dried slow enough you could take your time and they'd still level pretty well. It's a traditional look for a traditional house, but tough to get with current paints.
Hand brushing was how I got carpal tunnel.
Why not educate the customer on your normal process for painting houses and offer up references?
If I said I was going to do the job with machines and they insisted that I have to do it neanderthal style, that's their issue,not mine. If you want it done the old fashion way you're going to have to pay for it.
I guess I should ask the obvious - what about the previous 2 paint jobs didn't they like? Some old clapboards won't give good adhesion to any latex paint, for instance.
So I learned from my FIL who I guess is old school since he's 60. But we brush exteriors. Never rolled and back brushed or sprayed.
We have very little stucco, in the area and we personally have only painted siding jobs. We usually a do 3-5 houses a year.
You all seem to think brushing is a terribly slow way to go. Would you spray clapboard siding or what altered native that would be faster? Always looking for ways to increase efficiency.
We have very little stucco, in the area and we personally have only painted siding jobs. We usually a do 3-5 houses a year.
You all seem to think brushing is a terribly slow way to go. Would you spray clapboard siding or what altered native that would be faster? Always looking for ways to increase efficiency.
Brushing is fairly common around here. So is spraying and spraying and back brushing.
the last painter, who sprayed, used behr. zero prep, and its peeling after 4 years.
prior to that it was brushed, and guess that didnt last very long either. their complaint is that because they have spray painted their shutters, that a spray rig doesnt put the paint on thick enough. I tried to explain that their is a massive difference between a $6 spray can and a $1,000 spray rig with Duration...
they are set, with brushing
prior to that it was brushed, and guess that didnt last very long either. their complaint is that because they have spray painted their shutters, that a spray rig doesnt put the paint on thick enough. I tried to explain that their is a massive difference between a $6 spray can and a $1,000 spray rig with Duration...
they are set, with brushing
So you'll have extra prep work getting all that off.
So, bottom line is it's getting brushed because that's what they want. On they other hand, maybe they'd go for a mil thickness gauge test every x square feet and a spray job. Grab a brush, do a mil thickness test, agree to put down that same wet thickness with the spray rig as a less expensive option - they may bite. Or not...
I think giving them 2 numbers, one for brushed, one for spray may be OK, but they may just look at the brushed cost and think you boosted it to con them into going sprayed.
Good luck!
So, bottom line is it's getting brushed because that's what they want. On they other hand, maybe they'd go for a mil thickness gauge test every x square feet and a spray job. Grab a brush, do a mil thickness test, agree to put down that same wet thickness with the spray rig as a less expensive option - they may bite. Or not...
I think giving them 2 numbers, one for brushed, one for spray may be OK, but they may just look at the brushed cost and think you boosted it to con them into going sprayed.
Good luck!
I like to educate my customers. Especially if there are better options. A customer needs to be educated on the best products, techniques and the best bang for their buck on their project was my point.
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