So… you started a biz you knew zilch about. Now you want strangers to tell you how to run it. I’m sitting here grunting really hard but, squeezing out zero


Mike

 

I may not have conveyed my knowledge or understanding of the industry properly.
I know an extensive amount about the industry. But, there’s so many complex parts, especially on the engineering side, that I don’t know.
And, particularly, the sales side of the business. For example, should the target market be the end user? What do GCs expect to see when we’re submit a bid for a building to them? We’ve asked these questions of course, but because of the competitiveness of the industry, there’s very few willing the share the knowledge.

A lot of what is seemingly “basics” for the business, but is much more difficult information to obtain than the more complex knowledge that I’ve gained

 

You don't know the industry .

You don't know business operation.

Maybe get real OJT or further your education or ask
AI friends.

 

The thing is, no matter what your experience in any trade working in it, translating that into ownership experience is a different animal altogether, but you're doing the right thing in reaching out to find clarity or a path forward instead of just winging it... there are a lot of unanswered questions within the questions you're asking, but one of the quicker ways to get the information you need is to focus on your target audience... the term metal buildings itself can be any form from garages on up... so once you've decided on your target audience, get in contact with the GC's you're referencing an approach it from a market study perspective in that you're trying to approach things in your industry from their perspective and tailor it to such while at the same time finding those you want to work with...

​

"Mr. Whomever... walk me through your process in how you bid for constructing the project, what common pitfalls bring issues that cause you to lose money, what is some of the information that you expect in a bid but sometimes don't get that you feel are necessary from your POV, what issues from the supply side would you like to see addressed to better scheduling and profitability of a project, etc..."​

I'd even go back to the 10 bids you didn't get and find out why you didn't get the project... if you find a pattern of reasons, that will also give you some insight into how you can tailor things going forward...

If you're having how to run a business issues, there's also your local SCORE (Service Corps of Retired Executives) chapter... and look into any local trade associations related to your industry... there are many people who start a business who run into challenges... the ones who last, don't give up but keep after it... now is not the only time you're not going to NOT know something as every industry changes...

Congrats on the news business...

 

With so many reputable pre-engineered building manufacturers already in business, your only inroad will to be cheaper than them which is not a great business model.
Why should a builder or end user buy off an unproven start up -vs- Butler, Star, American, Nucor, Varco Pruden, Metallic or several others?

 

PEMBs are the 2$ hos of the building world....
Some collapse during erection.....

Carry extra insurance...
Keep personal wealth separated from any pre engineered metal building business.
I.e. get a skilled lawyer then start.

 

PEMBs are the 2$ hos of the building world....
Some collapse during erection.....

Carry extra insurance...
Keep personal wealth separated from any pre engineered metal building business.
I.e. get a skilled lawyer then start.

Total B.S.
Pre-engineered building represent well over half of all low rise commercial buildings constructed in the US.
There's only a couple zillion of them in place, performing everything they were intended to do.

 

So where are you located? If you are trying to sell to end users, then you need to be a GC with all that that involves. An owner isn't going to buy just the PEMB -- they want a building.

You mentioned you don't have a lot of knowledge of the engineering side. That's kind of what you are selling. My guess is most people, and I'm including GC's, really couldn't tell you the difference between the various buildings just by looking at them. Let's face it, everyone is typically buying based on price.

 

So where are you located? If you are trying to sell to end users, then you need to be a GC with all that that involves. An owner isn't going to buy just the PEMB -- they want a building.

Unfortunately, many owners do buy PEMB packages direct then try to find someone to put the foundations in and erect them.
This is rather common in the AG community. Not the smartest way to go, but it happens frequently enough.

 

Re reading Original Posts..

The more you learn about PEMBS vs everything else is they Aren't designed to as high of standards as most other biulding systems.....and have inherent thermal bridge issues that make Low energy designs more expensive than most other structural solutions.

The more you learn re PEMBS Engineering will make selling them to a large fraction of your potential customers immoral behavior.....
IMHO.

One could argue selling anything without understanding it's basic properties as immoral activity....

You might ask your attorney if ignorance as a legal strategy will protect you from injured customers.... especially after posting on a national website .....

" side effects may include death, loss of wealth, damaged goods and employees".... but they ARE Cheap per square foot.....

 

Re reading Original Posts..

The more you learn about PEMBS vs everything else is they Aren't designed to as high of standards as most other biulding systems.....and have inherent thermal bridge issues that make Low energy designs more expensive than most other structural solutions.

The more you learn re PEMBS Engineering will make selling them to a large fraction of your potential customers immoral behavior.....
IMHO.

One could argue selling anything without understanding it's basic properties as immoral activity....

You might ask your attorney if ignorance as a legal strategy will protect you from injured customers.... especially after posting on a national website .....

" side effects may include death, loss of wealth, damaged goods and employees".... but they ARE Cheap per square foot.....

Maybe I've missed something.

To me, your statements of opinion appear specious.

Might you edify me as to the specifics of your general indictment of an industry segment.

 

You get what you pay for generally...
Some eat off paper plates....some heirloom china... many pyrex....
Nothing wrong with low end products...just don't pretend they are equivalent to to structures with redundant load load paths and higher safety factor #s...
PEMB design is bare minimum needed....
Most other buildings have 3 and 4 x safety factor engineer + redundant load path design....
For example: PEMB 'barnimunms' generally fail to meet occupied housing building codes wind & energy wise. Ditto emergency service agency buildings....
The fire truck can't respond if the fire station is laying on the apparatus....

Metal buildings have their place...some issues can be mitigated, but at increasing costs.

 

Thank you for the reply.
Your opinion is noted.

No specific factual basis, eh ? I thought you may have had something more.

Thanks.

 

I gave you engineering and code 'facts'....
If Pembs didn't have some issues why build more expensive building systems.....

Generally in life I recommend studying FIRST then acting....

God loves fools, he makes a lot of them
Bless your❤.

 

I gave you engineering and code 'facts'....
If Pembs didn't have some issues why build more expensive building systems.....

Generally in life I recommend studying FIRST then acting....

God loves fools, he makes a lot of them
Bless your❤.

Again, maybe I missed something.

You cited No facts; only your viewpoint sans such factual basis.
I acknowledged your opinion and your blessing:

God loves fools, he makes a lot of them
Bless your❤.
.

 

As my opinion is based on actual experience....and measured facts..

Why don't you go find out how my opinion differs from your local reality...

Maybe in a low wind low salt dry sub tropical climate and low sesmic risk zoned Pembs offer long term economical building solutions..
Not so much in high wind exposures, salt exposure to steel elements from sea and road . Or where moving any structual elements might be needed for future remodels.

Hey ignore what I know, it won't cost me anything if you carry E&O & liability insurance...

 

@3rd4thGEN

Apparently an interesting conversation will not ensue here.

I'm a GC.
I thank you for your admonition while I will continue to rely moreso upon my own knowledge and experience that spans more than 50 years of business.

aside: in re: PEMB
The only structural problems I have observed occurred when the erector did not follow Professional protocols.

Make yourself a great day.

 

Tons of metal buildings here in MA. Never heard of any substantial problems. More cottages and wooden barns collapse here from snow than metal by far. My friend just put on up I did the pine interior. Nice building but he had to wait almost 3 years. Some of that was covid but anyone I know has said 1.5 years minimum wait.

In the end, they did their patented post and beam concrete floor and put it up. I could have done conventional money wise. My product would have been better but he was trying to save $$$. Great garage and it went up in 3 days once they finally delivered it. Covid did screw them pretty hard. I think his 50x70 went up 30k from when he ordered until delivery.

That garage will be there just as long as conventional. He did go with a higher end company as he has been dreaming of this for the last 40 years.

 

3rd gen do you have any actual experience with one failing? I mean failing not maintenance.

 

Hundreds of livestock pembs become unusable every year...
Aircraft hanger hanger Boise Idaho ~30 mph wind during erection.
Water and sewage pembs failed at 10 -20 years...
Standard PEMBS are designed with near minimum component strength thus very little reserve capacity for normal " abnormal " like high wind events..snow loads or even use changes that occur over time.

They have their place the market, but without up graded components I wouldn't recommend them for residential use or for any enterprise that needs to function post emergency event...
In my mispent youth I help build some metal buildings...many are still in use...none were used for human residences....
In past 4 decades I laid 100,000s of masonry units on and in tin buildings
. A large fraction were to migate the deficiencies of the blds.

They remain the paper plates / maybe chinnet of the building industry IMHO.

Your mileage may vary.

 

Maybe 30 years ago, company I was working for had a PEMB collapse during erection. It was the erector's fault. Combination of factors. 1) Bay spacing was like 20'. Height was about 40'. Temp cables ran from base of one frame to top of adjacent. Virtually no horizontal support. 2) Where cables looped around/thru frame, only used one cable clamp on loop. 3) In one case, ran loop of cable thru frame and stuck a piece of rebar thru the loop. Worked OK until wind blew and put slack in the cable. 4) Finally, footers were too small. When frame came down, foundation came with it.

Short result erector went out of business. Foundation Engineer's insurance kicked in. Builder's Risk kicked in something.

 

Hey, welcome to the industry!

Where are you selling? Always open to bringing on new manufacturers.

Give me a phone call if you want to chat. 317-300-4190

- Brody

 

Water, Horse.

This is Amerika, you can stay ignorant as long as you want...

Call 12 structural Engineers, ask what they think about PEMBs...
Report back to group.....

You get what you pay for generally. Payless = get less.

 

Maybe this is simplistic.

I've not erected a building that was engineered one 2x or one piece of steel at a time during a build. All have been pre-engineered. All plans are subject to site adjustments.

Responsibility lies with the buyer, be it DIYer or Professional, to verify specific Engineering needs..

Y'all are engaged in a silly argument.

 

Oh boy, it looks like I've revived an argument

 

A silly adversarial discussion...

Inre: (within this thread) Structural integrity of a Pre-engineered Metal Building.

 

30' height limit... 25 -50 year 'lifecycle'
Every one is welcome to have varying opinions... not so much with facts.
During times of high inflation/ poor government disposable buildings may have some tax advantages do to their faster rates of depreciation. And as less valuable buildings...lower property taxes per sq. Ft.
PEMBs are far better then no building....

 

Guess it's about time for me to tear down my 30 year old Butler shop building.
According to 3rd4thGEN it's at the end of it's lifespan and will likely be falling down soon.

 

Well you do need to contribute to the economy after all...

Kicker is, like solar panels, what happens to it after...

 

Ask your Pemb jobber about installing RTUs or custom grid spacing for a building........
Party walls.....
Details for masonry veneers....washbays....tornado shelter rooms....I disliked every pemb I ever laid a unit in or on...their wind drift is a ***** for mating to.

I 've been in a boiler building that would suck the walls in 1 " plus ..
Pemb water treatment totaled at ~15 years from damp & corrosion.
They have their place as cheap & quick ( if built by competent contractors that understand they need special treatment during erection & repair as they little to zero redundant load paths).

 

I’m 22 years old and have been selling tubular metal buildings with my two brothers for the past two years. We earn 15% of each building’s sales price, and while we’ve made good money, we’re not construction experts. We don’t know much about how the buildings are actually built or manufactured, but we’re strong in sales and know the components well.
Right now, this is more of a side hustle for us, but we’re thinking about getting licensed so we can buy directly from manufacturers and hire crews to handle installations. We’re not sure if this is realistic or profitable, but we’re trying to find ways to increase our share of the sales so we can eventually make this a full-time business.
If anyone has advice or experience with this kind of thing, we’d love to hear it!

 

I'm also 22. You need to get more sales or focus on reducing overhead. There is plenty of money to be made by being a dealer alone.

- Brody

 

Are you also a dealer?

 

What state are you selling in

 

We sell in the following states currently: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.

EDIT: Sorry, not sure if you were replying to us or not. Thought it was a private message.