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Brownchickenbrowncow
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Regardless of brand, how can I expect to be good with my tools if I do not own them?? Rookie or seasoned... I need tool in hand to be a craftsman. Power, hand, whatever.
 

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Trim Carpenter/Remodeler
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Discussion Starter #43
Sawdust how many of these homes your talking about we're built with contractors who used festool? just wondering why you have this view that people who have festool are not skilled at what they do or are you just jealous you have only just figured out festool whilst others have been working smarter not harder.
BC I try not to have that view at all but guys like WC prove a point I never mentioned to not offend anyone. The elitist as WC mentioned are NOT ALL but usually the ones that show up heavily armored for the job but only have the skill level of an apprentice & frown upon anyone else who doesn't own the type of tool they have. I won't mention my friend I made today any more because his feathers are already ruffled. Some of these guys may be good carpenters but their personality stinks & most of it is because of their mentality they get when owning the best. Accusing me of being jealous because I may not have the same tool you have is very childish, you might as well sing na na na na naaaaa na. Like I said before I'm a very happy man, been successful, love what I do, have a very lovely wife of over 40 years, 2 grown daughters, 19 year old son at home, 4 grandsons, & believe it or not all the tools I would want. A second thought I may buy a new truck this year because my 1992 Dodge B250 long bed van with over 450,000 miles is almost ready to be put to rest :clap:
 

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Trim Carpenter/Remodeler
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Discussion Starter #44
Oh yeah, you got me. I buy the best tools I can, because I can and because I hate junk.
I have 40k pounds of the finest cast iron machinery ever made in America.

I am a little bit of a tool and machine snob. I worked my ass off to be one though.

I regress because I must not know what I am doing and I just slap crap together for people and take all their money with no concerns about anything else.

The only people that hate on expensive, high quality tools are the one's that are too cheap to see the real value.

Does your VCR still blink 12:00?
NO I fixed my VCR but I still can't get my Betamax to work :laughing:
 

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We ALL know that tools don't make the man.

That being said.....ALL the guys I have seen toting racks of Systainers...are generally the best in the business....the cream of the crop.

They are generally the guys that care deeply about the quality of work they put forth, and likewise, the return on that concerted personal investment. So, the monetary investment in THE BEST TOOLS IN THE BUSINESS is an easy one to make for men with this viewpoint.

If I can get Level 9 results in 30 mins with a regular circ. saw.....or get Level 10 results in 15 mins with a Festool......I'm laying out the cash. Cuz I yearn for Level 10....and I want to go home early and hang with my boy.


I Festool.....therefore I am (an elitist).
 

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BC I try not to have that view at all but guys like WC prove a point I never mentioned to not offend anyone. The elitist as WC mentioned are NOT ALL but usually the ones that show up heavily armored for the job but only have the skill level of an apprentice & frown upon anyone else who doesn't own the type of tool they have. I won't mention my friend I made today any more because his feathers are already ruffled. Some of these guys may be good carpenters but their personality stinks & most of it is because of their mentality they get when owning the best. Accusing me of being jealous because I may not have the same tool you have is very childish, you might as well sing na na na na naaaaa na. Like I said before I'm a very happy man, been successful, love what I do, have a very lovely wife of over 40 years, 2 grown daughters, 19 year old son at home, 4 grandsons, & believe it or not all the tools I would want. A second thought I may buy a new truck this year because my 1992 Dodge B250 long bed van with over 450,000 miles is almost ready to be put to rest :clap:

No body here frowns upon anyone who dont own festool. Thats just something you have made up. Its really the other way around and some people dont get why other contractors like good quality, precision tools and don't mind paying for them. Just so your aware the cost of ownership of festool gear is much lower than any other brands. They resell for about 80% of what they were purchased for and they last a long time and spares will be available for many years. These are not your throw away type tools like most contractors use including me. If young guys you know are buying festool then hats off to them. I wish i bought into them earlier.
 

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We ALL know that tools don't make the man.

That being said.....ALL the guys I have seen toting racks of Systainers...are generally the best in the business....the cream of the crop.

They are generally the guys that care deeply about the quality of work they put forth, and likewise, the return on that concerted personal investment. So, the monetary investment in THE BEST TOOLS IN THE BUSINESS is an easy one to make for men with this viewpoint.

If I can get Level 9 results in 30 mins with a regular circ. saw.....or get Level 10 results in 15 mins with a Festool......I'm laying out the cash. Cuz I yearn for Level 10....and I want to go home early and hang with my boy.


I Festool.....therefore I am (an elitist).
You have to be pretty good in your business to be able to afford the green koolaid. So likely if you see the guy with Festool's then you probably see a guy who has paid his dues.
 

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Brownchickenbrowncow
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To give credit to sawdust... he very well in his construction circles, outside of this forum, have the koolaid showoff going on just as he describes. It could be a localized braggarts thing, especially when the guys cannot afford them.... or use them or have the work to use them to make them money...
 

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Want to play a game?
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I think I know what Sawdust is trying to say. A young carpenter should start off with the "starter" tools to become a craftsman and understand how to work in his/her trade with the average tools that are available.

I agree but once you have learned your craft it starts to be a efficiency game. As others have stated less mess, less back aches, etc. I don't own Festool but I am highly interested in them for those reasons. The thing that I see Festool try to harp on is the way things are set up and broken down. Which if you spend less time doing those things the more time you spend working on the actual project at hand.
 
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I'm somewhat of a old timer, 60 this week. I've been in the trades since I was 18.

Last year I purchased my first Festool products. Hell yes, I'm proud of them, but do they make me any better then I was before I got them. Probably not. But definately more efficient. My customers don't give a rat's a** what I use, all they want is a great finished project.

Having used a lot of tools, I have to say that they are the best I have handled in so many ways. I wish I had more money and I would probably buy more.

To each his own.
 

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stacker of sticks
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Blah, Blah, Blah...

...festool....;)

I love this topic.

Jim,

I signed on to CT about 3 weeks ago.

I started in the trades about 18 years ago.

When I did, I learned everything that I could while I was on site and was even scolded, more times than I care to admit about "production" procedures.

Was taught by a custom trim carpenter at the time: "you don't need a table saw for this, cut it like this, and the benchtop jointer is over there to clean up the cut."

This taught me to get surgical with the circular saw. Funny thing is, once you get the muscle memory down for this, you can rip anything on a razor's edge once you get it down.

This is lacking today...

I sent out a couple posts today in response to a guy wanting to "find a jig" to rip tapers on 2x6 material 16' long, on a TABLE SAW?

...*sigh*...

And up came the posts for a rail saw...

I had to look that up,

I saw what it was and its essentially a jig for a circ saw that I had seen in FHB years ago, all wrapped up in one product.

In closing, I hear you, and will leave you with what a lead carpenter told another carpenter they had just hired, with the company I was working for at the time:

"Just 'cause you have a bunch of tools doesn't mean you know how to use them.."

There was a time in this country when the carpenter "built" all the wooden aspects to the house...

...I'm just coming into the time when I work with guys that refer to the framing square as the "corner checker".

...I have to laugh,

...cause I'm all outta tears.

-Scott

:thumbsup:
I just use a 8' level and two quick clamps if I need a perfect cut.
 

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Always Learning
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Railman said:
For those of you who have never seen a Super Sawcat:

Mine were all 8 1/4" models.

Back when I bought them, they were in the range of $400 bucks...about double the everyday saw. I had one in each van tool sets...four. In todays money, that's about $800 each. They were the proto type of the current circular saw layout, way ahead of their time. They had great power, a huge aircraft alum base, & that could be zero'd in to great parallel acuracy.

At that $400 rate, I can easily justify the green saw pricing. ;)
Joe

BTW,
I finally found an avitar worthy of me!
My dad still has his sawcat. It's a great all purpose saw! I learned how to use a circular saw on it.
 

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I just don't see the point of these topics. All they seem to do is serve as a dividing point between people who have decided that a particular brand or style of tool suits their needs and people who have determined that nobody needs tools like these, because they themselves find no value in them.

Honestly, does anyone really care that much what other people decide to purchase? Does it make you any better at your trade telling someone else what they should or should not use for tools?

Being a crafstman and having high end tools are not mutually exclusive. I have a feeling that people who think they are judged by the tools they use on a job site have some insecurity issues. I've yet to see a contractor on any job site I have worked at looked down upon for their choice of equipment.
 

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Always Learning
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I like paper tape, supply house faucets, hate box store tools and don't like chevys!....oh and I like my Festool ts55.
 

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Joseph A. Capece
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A carpenter is only as good as his tools and a tool is only as good as the carpenter using it.

I don't understand how "green tools" have anything to do with "where this trade is headed". Our trade has become so competitive that any edge over the competition can mean being successful or going bankrupt. So go ahead and hand saw and hand nail every piece of framing, and make all of your unnecessary jigs while I'm putting profit into the job, not sucking it out.
 

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Commercial work.
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I always appreciate a good a rant.

But who the hell cares what we pull out of our trucks. I know personally I buy tools that i feel can make ME better. I still can't wrap my head around ripping a piece of plywood with a hand saw!
 

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I'm somewhat of a old timer, 60 this week. I've been in the trades since I was 18.

Last year I purchased my first Festool products. Hell yes, I'm proud of them, but do they make me any better then I was before I got them. Probably not. But definately more efficient. My customers don't give a rat's a** what I use, all they want is a great finished project.

Having used a lot of tools, I have to say that they are the best I have handled in so many ways. I wish I had more money and I would probably buy more.

To each his own.
More efficient IS better.
 

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Remodeler
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319 Posts
You guys just like to argue. Who gives a **** what you use? AS long as its done professionally and keeps the customer happy. When that happens, usually the bucks roll in. Some guys are tool junkies,,,so what? There's worse things a guy can spend his money on.
 
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