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The Security Guy...
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Hey guys, I am a product manager for ICC - I wanted to share this new item and get some feedback from you if possible.Its available from distribution for about $219" Plastic Structured Cabling Enclosure*Fits up to 4 modules or you can fit a router and 2 modules.http://www.icc.com/media-center-p-3794.htmlYour seasoned feedback is appreciated.
Link doesn't work...

Jim
 

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The Security Guy...
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That one does!

Looks like a nice cabinet, I assume it's strong and would look nice flush mounted...

Being plastic it should do well with wireless appliances if needed. Looks big enough for most jobs but larger would be nice for heavier residential or commercial.

$219 seems a little high for it's size IMO...

Thanks for the look see :thumbsup:

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hey Jim, sorry typo the distribution price is about $21.00 :)

We do have larger metal enclosures (14", 21", 28", 42") just curious to get feedback on this most recent model.

Thanks again!
 

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The Security Guy...
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Hey Jim, sorry typo the distribution price is about $21.00 :)

We do have larger metal enclosures (14", 21", 28", 42") just curious to get feedback on this most recent model.

Thanks again!
Now that's more like it :clap:

Now I like it a lot :w00t:

You'll have to send me a sample so I can critique it ;)

Jim
 

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To be honest its just a can...and its priced around the same as all the others.

What is it that sets this can apart from other cans exactly?

Its a little small too. I never get a job that just needs a router, its always router, modem, VoiP interface etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Some differences from other similarly sized plastic ones:

  • The plastic thickness is much thicker than others out there.

  • Includes removable cover that is hinged and can be used with pad lock or screwed down.

  • Works with all of our residential modules which are very competitively priced and while we have much larger enclosures it is targeting those installers and builders that are budget minded.
Here is also a link to the detailed spec sheet:

http://www.icc.com/pdfs_new/specs/_PSRESDC9PEB.pdf

Would like you hear more regarding typical installs you think would be appropriate for this enclosure. Also, what are some common bid configurations you are seeing?

Telephone / video module combo? 8 ports or 10 ?

Thanks again for all of your feedback .:thumbsup:
 

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Small jobs I typically use 18" Open House Can, 8+ phone 8+ data 8+ cable...router, modem, Voip box, switch etc.

Anything big I use a Middle Atlantic rack with leviton patch bays.
 

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Sorry to burst your bubble ICC but those things usually wind up ripped out and in the garbage. I really wish you guys (namely you, Leviton, OnQ and the rest) would stop pushing that kind of junk. The cable company won't work with your "modules" and will rip them out, neither will the phone company. The computer geek is only going to hang his stuff outside of your box in some ungodly mess and the door won't be able to be closed. Please stop!

-Hal
 

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Thats true for someone that gets the cable company to hook it up; but all my jobs I use a low-voltage can and hook it up cleanly myself. And they work just great.

What is your suggestion?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hal,I appreciate your feedback I would like to here you suggestions as to how you prefer to see the structured wiring center for a residential installation? About encouraging the use of the enclosures, not sure what came first but the major builders whats left of them are still specifying these enclosures in their installations so we obviously want to satisfy that demand. I understand that some phone companies are now encouraging the use of their own proprietary enclosures with their hardware. Which can make it difficult to add or make changes later on without their involvement. Have any of your come across their enclosures / equiptment like this?
 

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There is no doubt that in some construction a recessed enclosure is the only place to locate the premise wiring home runs and the equipment that goes with them. Even if there is an unfinished area or basement where equipment can be located, a surface mount enclosure is a nice touch.

The problems with what's out there now are two things:

1) The enclosures are too small.

2) Proprietary devices like telephone, data and cable modules are not acceptable to service providers and others outside of the electrical trade who will have to work with the actually three system (telephone, data and CATV) housed in that one enclosure.

I touched on that situation above. Cable company techs will want to use their company standard splitters, amplifier (if necessary), fittings on the cables and configure the system as they need to.

I'm mainly a telecom company and I always want to see home runs terminated on 50 pair (split) 66M blocks so that each of the four pairs of each run is separately accessable for things like multi-line phone systems, different lines, etc. This is something that is impossible to do with modules that terminate the home runs and bridge all the first and second pairs together. Rarely is there enough cable slack to remove those modules and reterminate on 66 blocks within the enclosure. That assumes that there is even room for the blocks. Lots of room is also needed if the phone service is provided by the cable company for their EMTAs and backup power.

Data also needs lots of room for wireless routers, switches, modems and UPS. Patch cords can get very bulky also and unfortunately most computer geeks have no talent for neatness.

What I suggest is to just provide a LARGE and deep enclosure- at least 36"x48"x6" with a plywood backboard and provisions for a power receptacle. Scrap the modules. The EC prewires and runs the home runs into the enclosure. Each trade comes in later to do their own thing.

I know that's not what the ECs want to hear. I know they want to provide a one stop solution themselves but unfortunately that's not something that's workable. The customer is not going to be happy if after they had paid for and been told a complete system had been provided, they find out later from other techs that what they have can't be used as is.

-Hal
 

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I'm mainly a telecom company and I always want to see home runs terminated on 50 pair (split) 66M blocks so that each of the four pairs of each run is separately accessable for things like multi-line phone systems, different lines, etc. This is something that is impossible to do with modules that terminate the home runs and bridge all the first and second pairs together. Rarely is there enough cable slack to remove those modules and reterminate on 66 blocks within the enclosure. That assumes that there is even room for the blocks. Lots of room is also needed if the phone service is provided by the cable company for their EMTAs and backup power.
66 Holy crap I didn't think they still made thoes, I have a bunch in my junk bin.

With the open house its just a matter of swapping the telecom for the data (identical layout) then you can patch it directly into a phone system.

Besides, for any house I've done that has a phone system I put a middle atlantic onwall rack with 2 or 3 48 port cat5/6 patch bays. I only use the enclosures for small residential setups that never get phone systems.
 

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We would never use a patch panel for telephone. Patch panels are for data. You can't break out individual pairs when needed and phone systems aren't connected with patch cords. I really don't want to insult you but 66 blocks are what the pros use to cross connect voice. If you don't understand don't criticize.

-Hal
 

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The Security Guy...
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I hear ya Hal...

I have tried the "modules" and have had issues with the other trades jacking them up, board failures, customer cross wired issues, etc.

I too only use 66 blocks due to your stated reasons Hal.

I think the modules are great for the retired generation who generally will hire the install(er), the installer will work with the cable, phone, network, etc co's to complete a simple system. Then the system will never be touched again...

If it's anybody else, their going want to make changes in the future and pretty regularly. Here's where these systems fall flat on their face - the original installer is gone (fired, no longer doing this, cant remember who he was, etc). Now the customer has to deal directly with the new techs coming in to add or repair the systems.

They don't recognize the module or understand what it's doing, mostly because they don't understand the old fundamentals, because they were taught with "their preferred module" only. Before their done things just quit working or they just pull the old to replace with the new - costing the customer again!

I'm not trying to knock the newer installers - we need them - but if they haven't been fully trained with the basics first and are sent out to solve issues at a new customers home with a group of modules they don't recognize - the customer is bound to pay more for equipment and labor, and things like "line seizure" can be lost...:rolleyes:

Jim
 

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I really don't want to insult you but 66 blocks are what the pros use to cross connect voice. If you don't understand don't criticize.
I'm not insulted nor was I trying to criticize, I'm just shocked.

Where are you located? Here in Canada 66's are only see on old installs, lots around but no one puts new ones in. This is BIX country, I use to do all bix because that is standard.

phone systems aren't connected with patch cords.
I install Inter-Tel, they use patch cords...even says to use 7 foot patch cords in the instruction manuel.

There are patch bays for both voice and data.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
66 Block for Voice Termination in Residential Installs

For the 66 block as the voice option, anyone use the blocks smaller than 25 pair size for these types of smaller installs? or just stick with 25 pair size?
 

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I believe there are 12 pair blocks but you rarely find them either in use or available. Remember, we punch down all four pairs from each home run cable so that means you can only get six cables per side of a 50 pair (split) 66 block (12 cables per block). Those little half blocks run out of room real quick but otherwise can come in handy every once and a while for other uses. In your case though I don't think I would put too much effort in supplying them. I would like to see ICC supply 25 pair 66M blocks. (Same as the 50 pair but without the split rows.) Correct me if I'm mistaken but i don't think you do.

Here in Canada 66's are only see on old installs, lots around but no one puts new ones in. This is BIX country, I use to do all bix because that is standard.

I'm fully aware that BIX is the standard north of the border. Every once and a while I come across them here, usually in conjunction with Nortel systems.

I install Inter-Tel, they use patch cords...even says to use 7 foot patch cords in the instruction manual.

There is one word for an installation like that- mess. We have 25 pair breakout cables made (they are also available from a national supplier who we have been working with) that go between the KSU and terminate on a cross connect block. Same for 6 pair cables for the CO lines. I have seen jobs done like what you are talking about and there is no real way to to make them efficient (as far as moves go) or neat. That kind of thing is for IT not phone and you know what IT always ends up looking like.

-Hal
 

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We would never use a patch panel for telephone. Patch panels are for data. You can't break out individual pairs when needed and phone systems aren't connected with patch cords. I really don't want to insult you but 66 blocks are what the pros use to cross connect voice. If you don't understand don't criticize.

-Hal
Gee Hal, guess you have never seen the breakout where you can switch which phoneline goes to which jack without rewiring. Maybe the HO doesn't want the mainline to go to the kids room. Switch a patch cord and voila its done. I can see where your way would be so much easier after the HO has to go buy a punchdown tool and then try to properly terminate the wires.

If you don't understand don't criticize. Lookout behind you, that noise you hear is change. Don't be afraid.
 
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