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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am bidding removing and reinstalling new porch boards for a Victorian home. This is a small upper deck 4-1/2 feet by 14 feet.

They have a wrap around lower porch which I need to replicate. The existing porch boards are usable 3-1/8 to 3-1/4 wide and are 1 inch thick tongue and groove. I bid Red Oak and offered a choice of Pine, both species were turned down. The Red Oak for the price and I don't know why for the Pine.

She did ask me what other woods (no Azek porch boards) they could use. I am getting a bid on Cypress and am waiting on a price.

I told her there may be minimum orders required since she only needs 30 boards 10 feet long and if it has to be milled there would be a set up fee.

The question is do you as knowledgeable contractor/builders have any other ideas?

Thanks,

Bob
 

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I am bidding removing and reinstalling new porch boards for a Victorian home. This is a small upper deck 4-1/2 feet by 14 feet.

They have a wrap around lower porch which I need to replicate. The existing porch boards are usable 3-1/8 to 3-1/4 wide and are 1 inch thick tongue and groove. I bid Red Oak and offered a choice of Pine, both species were turned down. The Red Oak for the price and I don't know why for the Pine.

She did ask me what other woods (no Azek porch boards) they could use. I am getting a bid on Cypress and am waiting on a price.

I told her there may be minimum orders required since she only needs 30 boards 10 feet long and if it has to be milled there would be a set up fee.

The question is do you as knowledgeable contractor/builders have any other ideas?

Thanks,

Bob
You can use Mahogany T&G great stuff, we use on porches all the time.
 

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Which pine - white or SYP?

My recollection is SYP and Cypress can be had where you are pretty reasonably. There used to be some small cypress mills in East Texas, but it's a ways for you to drive....

Hackberry used to be cheap, but not when it's custom milled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I hate to admit it but I will anyway, I don't know what VGDF stands for.

Would you enlighten me please.

One of the things I find interesting in this business (this is what I tell Clemens-Fine Decks Inc.) is depending on the area you live in some materials aren't available to everyone. Actually I tell him he has access to better toys than we do.

Thank you for your assistance.

Tonight she says well lets use Azek porch boards. Oops I had given her a price for Cypress now it is a go for that, Lord help me.


Bob
 

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I hate to admit it but I will anyway, I don't know what VGDF stands for.

Would you enlighten me please.

One of the things I find interesting in this business (this is what I tell Clemens-Fine Decks Inc.) is depending on the area you live in some materials aren't available to everyone. Actually I tell him he has access to better toys than we do.

Thank you for your assistance.

Tonight she says well lets use Azek porch boards. Oops I had given her a price for Cypress now it is a go for that, Lord help me.


Bob
vertical grain douglas fir.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I guess we are on the same page. I got a quote from my supplier for Doug Fir, Cypress, and Redwood.

She will take the cypress if she can paint it.

Many decades ago I built a huge cypress deck, had to go to Louisiana to pick up the wood. Heck it came in random lengths and thicknesses, so I had to haul it back and take it be milled, those were the day.

Thank you for your input.

Bob
 

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Red oak is not weather resistant it will rot quickly exposed to the weather x 20 in a T&G app. Now white oak is another story.

Most of the time with those old porches their radical fall is what made them last and the use of old growth lumber. I vote for Doug Fir too it is still possible to get CVG and it will last way longer than Con Heart Redwood second growth.

Jon Mon www.deckmastersllc.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If I were to go with redwood it would be either heart "B" or clear heart. Since the boards are only one inch thick con heart knots would drop out quickly.

Cypress would be a good choice and it last for a long time. It would be better if it were Tide Water Red instead of Bald or Southern Cypress but there is little of that left.

Here the Doug Fir and Redwood are not much different in price. Cypress is a bit less expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
She has already seen the price for Azek and I thought she was going to have a stroke.

Thank all of you for the heads up on Red Oak rotting, since I don't use it I was unaware.

This is a fine example of what hanging out with masters like you gentlemen, and ladies if there are any, gets me.
 

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Side note regarding cypress; I was reading a book about how innovative Frank LLoyd
Wright was and it turns out for some of his houses (Usonian houses, very innovative affordable houses) he designed a wall assembly of which cypress was the main part; it sounded like the cypress holds up really well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Most of the old southern plantation mansions were made of cypress (primarily Tide Water Red) and they are as good today as they were back then.
 

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Most of the old southern plantation mansions were made of cypress (primarily Tide Water Red) and they are as good today as they were back then.
Most of the tidewater red stuff is a myth. Its a subspecies and carries all the same properties as bald does. The thing that's different as far as being durable is age of the tree. People will always say they're selling tidewater red but don't, its just the very heart of a bald cypress old growth tree.

From what I understand what makes tidewater red different is the soil composition it grows in, not any characteristics of the lumber other than appearance.

Careful on the cypress too... If it wasn't dried right or is above 15% mc it WILL get squirrely quick. I deal with about 30,000 bd ft of cypress per year and learned a good supplier the hard way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Actually tide water red is found in the water deep into the marsh and it is blood red in color just like clear heart redwood. Bald or southern cypress is found in less marshy conditions and has the same look as pine. Bald or southern cypress rots just like untreated pine but tide water red does not.

Unfortunately tide water red is old growth trees and most of that has been cut.

When I was buying the cypress for Mr. Owens deck I went to Louisiana and spent a little more than a day getting educated about cypress from an old ******** gentleman who owned a lumber supply company.

I can only presume he was telling me the truth and subsequent reading I did at the time seemed to support his teachings.

If I am building using a material I am unfamiliar with I do my best to learn about that species so when I speak to the customer I am not blowing smoke. Kind of like Ipe. I had never built with Ipe at the time so I did some research on the properties as well as talking to a bunch of other NADRA guys, including Clemens Jellima of Fine Decks Inc.
 

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Actually tide water red is found in the water deep into the marsh and it is blood red in color just like clear heart redwood. Bald or southern cypress is found in less marshy conditions and has the same look as pine. Bald or southern cypress rots just like untreated pine but tide water red does not.

Unfortunately tide water red is old growth trees and most of that has been cut.

When I was buying the cypress for Mr. Owens deck I went to Louisiana and spent a little more than a day getting educated about cypress from an old ******** gentleman who owned a lumber supply company.

I can only presume he was telling me the truth and subsequent reading I did at the time seemed to support his teachings.

If I am building using a material I am unfamiliar with I do my best to learn about that species so when I speak to the customer I am not blowing smoke. Kind of like Ipe. I had never built with Ipe at the time so I did some research on the properties as well as talking to a bunch of other NADRA guys, including Clemens Jellima of Fine Decks Inc.
Taxodium distichum (bald cypress, baldcypress, bald-cypress, cypress, southern-cypress, white-cypress, tidewater red-cypress, Gulf-cypress, red-cypress, or swamp cypress)

Its all the same tree. Those ole boys you were talking to are usually a big part of the myth. They think since it looks so different it must be different lumber. When in reality things like minerals in the sediment that the tree is growing in make the color difference and what makes cypress more rot resistant is the age of the tree the lumber was cut from. I didn't believe it at first until digging a bit deeper, but yep, seemed tidewater belonged with bigfoot and chupacabra...

If your cypress only lasts as long as untreated pine outside than I would think about finding a new source, I don't want to sound like an ass, but it should be double or triple the life span of Pine outdoors.
 

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Taxodium distichum (bald cypress, baldcypress, bald-cypress, cypress, southern-cypress, white-cypress, tidewater red-cypress, Gulf-cypress, red-cypress, or swamp cypress)

Its all the same tree. Those ole boys you were talking to are usually a big part of the myth. They think since it looks so different it must be different lumber. When in reality things like minerals in the sediment that the tree is growing in make the color difference and what makes cypress more rot resistant is the age of the tree the lumber was cut from. I didn't believe it at first until digging a bit deeper, but yep, seemed tidewater belonged with bigfoot and chupacabra...

If your cypress only lasts as long as untreated pine outside than I would think about finding a new source, I don't want to sound like an ass, but it should be double or triple the life span of Pine outdoors.
If it belongs in the same world as bigfoot and the chupacabra then it definitely exists, right?
 
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