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Need help on Crown Molding on Trey Ceiling

35K views 52 replies 19 participants last post by  parkers5150 
#1 ·
Need help on Crown Molding on inset Trey Ceiling

I am used to installing crown molding on flat drywall.

However my current customer would like me to install crown molding at the top of her (recessed) trey ceiling. See attached picture; black marks show where crown molding is to be installed.

Obviously where the cust wants the molding installed presents a third angle. I am not sure my miter (mitre) saw can accommodate this but perhaps there are some tricks.

Also trey is not 100% straight-a bit wavy in parts.

Appreciate any help.
Sincerely
Peter
 

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#4 ·
I think it would be as simple as cutting the bottom edge of the molding to the angle of the wall. Then everything else should be just about the same. The corner is at 90 degrees, just skewed. Never did it before but this is where I would start.

Second way would be to make a box for the crown to sit on square.
 
#5 ·
my first thought would be a two piece crown and to use the table saw to form it to provide a vertical plane for nailing the crown onto. It would seem that this piece could not be very tall b/c of the angle of your wall.


Leo-what do you mean by 'make a box'? are we desribing the same thing?
 
#8 ·
Hang a board vertical from the ceiling and then a board horizontal from that into the angled wall. Then you have a square, vertical surface to place your crown on. You would need to do something under the box to alleviate the flat area.

I think putting a cut on the crown is the best option.

 
#11 · (Edited)
here are some instalation layouts

You already have a cove angle to work with - use a detailed wide projected molding ,ogee or round over on top,same on bottom, I don't know what kind of equipment you have but you can miter the top to fit the ceiling on a TS and put a Ogee or round over on the base of the molding- look at the diagram of the case molding 4.5" profile .

Another option is to create a horizontal cleat filler to match the angle of the tray with the bottom being parallel to the ceiling (square), install the top of the Cove molding to the ceiling as it usually and the bottom to the matching cleat filler , in other words it is a custom trim to fill the offset angle -if you are limited in wood shaping equipment ,i woudl choose the wide profile base molding option and angle the base on a TS- you can fill the whole tray bottom edge to ceiling , or just the one coarse. the picture below is an example of chair rail-stacked, another option,,
Hope you can work this out-
Good luck with the cove MLDG project.:thumbsup:
 

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#14 · (Edited)
You need to put a sacrificial fence on the TS and then raise the blade into it. Run the molding with the back up against the sacrificial fence and it is easy and accurate.




Any more questions? :w00t:
 
#16 ·
The guys got a CNC machine but no CAD to show drawings :rolleyes:



:laughing:
 
#17 ·
Why do you think I am so anxious for you to go cnc Leo? You got the mad computer skilz it takes to pull it off. I would be glad to take the back seat to you when you take the plunge.

What do you have to be afraid of?:whistling
 
#18 ·
The CAD (KeyCAD) I use cost me $13.95 and I got it at Staples. :laughing:

I have AutoCAD and AutoDesk but only use them when I am sent a file from someone and need to open it. I can use AutoCAD but I am sloooow. I fly with my KeyCAD.

Just need a huge backlog of work and a large infusion of cash Gus and your dream will be mine too.
 
#19 ·
The CAD (KeyCAD)

Just need a huge backlog of work and a large infusion of cash Gus and your dream will be mine too.
You will have a lot of fun with it as you well know.

I'm still wanting you to have it asap. We will have a ton of fun chatting about all the ins and outs.:thumbsup:
 
#20 ·
If you were to cut the new angle to the bottom of the crown as shown in the pictures, how would you cut it? Would you just slide your crownstops down to make it fit against the fence, just sitting lower? I know if I thought about this long enough, it would come to me. But it's way past my bedtime and the mental capacity is slipping with my lack of sleep. Also, if you cut it flat on the saw, you would have to figure a whole new set of angles as the spring angle is changed, right?

One other thought, I think it's pretty cool how the internet has changed communication. Here you have two guys (Gus and Leo)who live on opposite ends of the country, who I assume have never met yet are completely familiar with each others carpentry skills, talking like the live just across town from each other. And all the while a knucklehead like me is up at 2:45 in the morning asking crazy questions that popped into my head while reading about what a fourth guy (pcumming) is working on right now. Thank you Al Gore for inventing the information superhighway!
 
#25 ·
If you were to cut the new angle to the bottom of the crown as shown in the pictures, how would you cut it?
You would cut it just like the wall was square and not angled. You would nest the crown in the miter saw just as if you had never taken the back cut.
 
#21 ·
This is why we normally square off most of our trey ceilings but we occasional have a client that wants it angled. In place of crown molding, we have used one or two runs of picture mold. It makes for an easy install and the clients most importantly are happy.

Personally I like two runs better than one as the single looks undersized but again it all depends on what the client likes.
 

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#27 ·
I cant do the fancy drawings so i have to rely on a verbal explanation. I would take a piece of 5/4 mat, maybe 1-3/4'' at the longpoint, rip and angle to match the cieling along the 5/4'' side, screw it up along your crown line, creating a 5/4'' plumb surface, nail crown to that, you even end up with a nice channel for rope lighting:thumbsup:, GMOD
 
#34 ·
Genecarp



That is very interesting idea????????, I'm trying to picture what that would look like ? I can appreciate your artistry and creativity with the design.
One question though, Based on that picture it appears to be a 60 degree angle (around there).

So you would have to raise the cove molding up on the tray angle until it is flush with the bottom 45 degree back angle on the cove molding. In doing this creating a 15 degree fill gap opening at the top edge of the cove. hence- your filler mat installed on the ceiling to match the width of the cope from ceiling to tray angle when installed ,then install the cope molding flush to line up with the top edge of the 15 degree beveled filler mat, that's what I was thinking but only on the bottom, installing the filler mat on the tray angle of the ceiling,
but I was thinking about doing what you suggested but I thought this would change the profile appearance to much, making it appear to lean into the ceiling and leaving sharp angle to the cove molding profile,,,,,,, I drew it out but it's hard to tell because it's on paper-not virtual, so what do you think, ?? I like your idea though! , where would you put the rope light in the design, and can you intall those on a dimer switch??sounds really interesting- ! -please elaborate
Thanks - great idea! :thumbsup:
 
#33 ·
This might have been a good opportunity to flex your professional muscles and explain nicely that crown molding doesn't get installed in a tray ceiling. How about we install the crown molding down below in the normal 90 degree walls and install a nice chair rail profile where you want the crown?

I subscribe to the belief that when a customer ask you to do something, there is still a qualify step in the process where you as a professional at your trade must first determine if the request is even valid or not. I'm not big on the customer request and the contractor's only question is how high.
 
#42 ·
Pc -

So PC,,,what did you decide to do about the cove molding project?


Hey Leo,,,,,

nice idea and great drawing but I can not, for the love of god, agree with the meathod of creating that angle - I have to respectfully disagree with you on this Leo.

If you disagree with my oppinion, thats fine Lee, that's what makes this country so great. We all have our opinions, however, there is a problem with this method, looks good on paper- out in the field,,,,,,,on a TS
The first reason that came to my mind is when putting a bevel on a board when the blade is angled toward the fence, any slip up that raises the board will, in addition to the kickback hazard, cause to much wood to be removed, and it's tough to put it back on. but in this case the opposite would happen -random undercutting and the trapped scrap becoming a hazardous projectile.
IMO- When the blade tilts away from the fence, left TS - any such error only requires an additional pass to correct the undercut and will not result in binding and the kickback hazard is also reduced this way. For this reason, I prefer the blade to tilt away from the fence as it does on a left tilt arbor TS. Either way IMO the result will not be satisfactory.
but like I said earlier Lee, for all those facts I listed above- the Tilting Shaper head with a straight shaft plane & hog bit is the best machine to use for a professional job in this situation.
I have been saving my dollars for for that type of shaper, (used of coarse)very versatile machine,.
anyways, you have a great week Leo and stop by POGO "chess" some time - just let me know when your going there-PM :thumbsup:
 
#44 · (Edited by Moderator)
So PC,,,what did you decide to do about the cove molding project?


Hey Leo,,,,,

nice idea and great drawing but I can not, for the love of god, agree with the meathod of creating that angle - I have to respectfully disagree with you on this Leo.

If you disagree with my oppinion, thats fine Lee, that's what makes this country so great. We all have our opinions, however, there is a problem with this method, looks good on paper- out in the field,,,,,,,on a TS
The first reason that came to my mind is when putting a bevel on a board when the blade is angled toward the fence, any slip up that raises the board will, in addition to the kickback hazard, cause to much wood to be removed, and it's tough to put it back on. but in this case the opposite would happen -random undercutting and the trapped scrap becoming a hazardous projectile



The operation that Leo described is perfectly safe, and dead on accurate if executed properly. I to have been using techniques like that for 30 years, it is basic part of table saw knowledge.
 
#43 ·
I have to disagree with you disagreeing with me :laughing:

Yes, there is a chance that you will have a projectile. But in this case I wouldn't worry about it to much. The pc remaining after the cut is not the same size as the hole left between the blade and the fence. Plus it is a small pc of wood. You can't take too much off of the pc (unless you are really clueless on TS operation) because the fence limits what you can take off. The real problem is not keeping it tight to the fence and taking to little off and leaving a bump. I have done this operation hundreds if not thousands of times and never ruined a pc. I have however had some projectiles come out at a good speed. I am always aware of this danger and make sure that nothing is in the way or specifically put something in the way to prevent the projectile from going to far.

For me this is done on a unisaw in the shop. I would rarely do this in the field because I would already know the angle of the ceiling and applied it to the molding before I brought it to the clients home.
 
#45 ·
If you were really worried about that little sliver flying back at you, you could modify the sac fence similar to this technique covered in this thread.

But I described a method that would work where the off fall would not be captivated by the blade and fence in post # 15.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f13/beveled-edge-tutorial-56493/
 
#46 ·
He's just challenging me Gus. Trying to take your place.....:laughing:
 
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