[Project 63]

My application for the B trade is in progress. I still have not been approved for a testing date. I recieved a letter stating they need additional documentation for job site permits/inspections. For the past 5 years, I worked with a licensed B contractor assisting him in remodels and new single family construction. He has taught me everything about the construction trade in building a new home. Unfortunately I was not an employee because I was helping my uncle who is the licensed contractor. I' m a licensed C27 contractor and have performed numerous jobs in remodeling homes but without any building permits. So I don't have proof to prove my experience for my completed projects in the past 6 years.
My question is, can I submit building permits with my endorsed contractors name and license as proof of work experience? The reason I did not pull the permits is because the city would not allow me due to a lack of having a B license. My uncle assisted me in the various construction phases so would that suffice?

 

[License Guru]

Hello Project 63 and welcome to CT.

Unfortunately... gonna give it to you straight... you're chances of getting the B classification are slim to zilch.

Permits, contracts, etc would have to be in your name.

One path you could take is... the cslb has been passing off apps to be investigated and sending the applicant to the exam at the same time. You could take the exam, pass it, then withdraw your app. That passing score will be good for 5 yrs, and during that time you could be stockpiling documentation.

So without w-2's, pay stubs, contracts or permits in your name... the cslb will say no.

 

[JMoney]

Hi License Guru,

So I want to apply for a C-8 concrete license in California. I have the necessary experience, but it's not documented well at all. I am also only 22 years old, and I have read in some other posts of this thread that about 3% of applications get inspected more thoroughly. So, say I apply for a license, do i have a 97% chance of getting by without additional investigation of the experience, or will me being 22 years old qualify me for an automatic additional investigation?

Another question: if I can't provide additional information, can I have someone with the documented experience sign for me even if he doesn't have a social security number?

Thanks for all the help, much appreciated.

 

[License Guru]

Hello JMoney. Welcome to CT.

The C8 is not a critical classification and it doesn't automatically trigger the request for additional docs. Being 22 will pull that trigger. If you can't document at least 4 yrs of journeyman level experience, they will deny you a license. I'd suggest waiting at least 2 yrs before applying.

The certifier won't be asked for his/her SSN.

 

[Patsfanindallas]

Is this a spam thread?

 

[blinas2]

My kid had to withdraw his application (B) because they said he needed more information for to verify his self employed experience. I certified a few months of his work experience and they wanted MY tax records....
So, he has applied again and we hoped he wouldn't get flagged a second time - but he did. So, in order to prove the work he has claimed on the 'Work Experience Certificates' we hope by getting his certifiers to sign material receipts, invoices and check stubs for all the jobs he's done will suffice. The woman running the investigation seems to have little patience and has already sent him a letter explaining consequences of being denied the application, ie denial is on your permanent record and you must disclose denial on all future applications - whereas withdrawal is not Recorded and you can re-apply right away. One ray of hope: It looks like, he won't have to take the exam again since he took it w/in 5 yrs.
I'm thinking it might be best or easier to withdraw and immediately re-apply in hopes of not being flagged a third time...?

 

[The Coastal Craftsman]

I'm not getting this. Are you saying you couldn't get a B license because you not pulled permits! Never heard if that requirement. I know a few people who have done A's without that requirement. Some had zero US experience also. A lot of A/B and C contractors never have to pull permits. My mate who does windows and siding never has too yet got an a license. This don't make sense to me.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Is this a spam thread?

What would make you think it was a "spam thread"? :blink:

Phil has assisted hundreds of people here with California Contractors License questions.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I'm not getting this. Are you saying you couldn't get a B license because you not pulled permits! Never heard if that requirement. I know a few people who have done A's without that requirement. Some had zero US experience also. A lot of A/B and C contractors never have to pull permits. My mate who does windows and siding never has too yet got an a license. This don't make sense to me.

If you did work requiring a General B License in California, you should have pulled a permit or 2.


I don't know what a B is in VA, so maybe it's different.

 

[The Coastal Craftsman]

If you did work requiring a General B License in California, you should have pulled a permit or 2. I don't know what a B is in VA, so maybe it's different.

Didn't know he was in Cali. That explains it all lol. Here it goes A,B,C in order of most expensive to get to least expensive. Most people around here just do the A. Most have never done a days construction work in their life lol.

 

[License Guru]

My kid had to withdraw his application (B) because they said he needed more information for to verify his self employed experience. I certified a few months of his work experience and they wanted MY tax records....
So, he has applied again and we hoped he wouldn't get flagged a second time - but he did. So, in order to prove the work he has claimed on the 'Work Experience Certificates' we hope by getting his certifiers to sign material receipts, invoices and check stubs for all the jobs he's done will suffice. The woman running the investigation seems to have little patience and has already sent him a letter explaining consequences of being denied the application, ie denial is on your permanent record and you must disclose denial on all future applications - whereas withdrawal is not Recorded and you can re-apply right away. One ray of hope: It looks like, he won't have to take the exam again since he took it w/in 5 yrs.
I'm thinking it might be best or easier to withdraw and immediately re-apply in hopes of not being flagged a third time...?

The current underground reg makes it mandatory for B applicants (and the 7 other so called "critical classifications") to provide paper proof of the experience. So withdrawing the app and re-applying won't change anything. If nothing changes at the CSLB (aka Constantly Stupid License Board), you could re-apply in a couple three years and still have to prove your experience on paper.

The law requires that the applicants knowledge be tested with a written examination. The uber-smart people making up the rules have made the exams a moot point.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I'm gonna take a guess at those 'critical classifications'.

General A

General B

C-10 Electrical

C-36 Plumbing

C-16 Fire Protection

C-4 Boiler and Steam Fitting

C-51 Structural Steel

And for the last I can't decide betweeen;

C-57 Water Well Drilling

C-60 Welding



How'd I do?

 

[Calidecks]

I got my B license 13 years ago and had to show proof of experience. Wasn't too hard I had almost twenty years as a carpenter working for a General. I also had a union card.

 

[pcplumber]

My application for the B trade is in progress. I still have not been approved for a testing date. I recieved a letter stating they need additional documentation for job site permits/inspections. For the past 5 years, I worked with a licensed B contractor assisting him in remodels and new single family construction. He has taught me everything about the construction trade in building a new home. Unfortunately I was not an employee because I was helping my uncle who is the licensed contractor. I' m a licensed C27 contractor and have performed numerous jobs in remodeling homes but without any building permits. So I don't have proof to prove my experience for my completed projects in the past 6 years.
My question is, can I submit building permits with my endorsed contractors name and license as proof of work experience? The reason I did not pull the permits is because the city would not allow me due to a lack of having a B license. My uncle assisted me in the various construction phases so would that suffice?

I find it to be strange when the CSLB asks for additional proof for work experience because I have licenses for 9 trade classifications and was never asked for additional proof for work experience.

I would send some additional Work Experience Application Forms filled out by people who know you and attach a letter stating that you never obtained a permit nor an inspection because you worked with another contractor. No employee, friend nor partner is required to obtain permits when working with, or under someone else.

I think applicants read too much into what is required to qualify for a license. I don't believe that tax records, etc. are necessary to qualify because you could have worked with your father, or a friend and all you should need is one (1) person to sign one (1) Work Experience Application Form. My opinion is that you either did, or you did not and the reason for the Work Experience Verification Form is to verify that you did. Also, I don't think the person signing the Work Experience Application has to submit proof nor records because he is not the person being investigated.

Not every person gets paid money when they get work experience and to qualify for a B general building contractor you can get all the work experience you need doing the trades required by working for free on your homes, rental units your relatives, your friends and neighbors.

Suppose, during the past 5 years you built 2 homes all by yourself with absolutely no help and only 1 person on this planet knows that you built these homes, or you remodeled only 2 kitchens. If the work performed is within the requirements and these jobs took you 5 years then you have the work experience you need and your mother's or father's signature on the Work Experience form should be enough.

If you did the work then you should qualify with or without proof and the proof should be sufficient when the signature is on the Work Experience Application Form.

Don't be a chicken and fight for what is right. I find that the CSLB workers are just normal people trying to week out the weirdos and they are willing to listen and work with you on the phone. Write a letter, first, then call on the phone and back up what you wrote.

 

[CarpenterSFO]

... advice about how to deal with the CSLB and experience requirements ...

I have the impression that CSLB application processing has changed in the last couple of years.

 

[License Guru]

I'm gonna take a guess at those 'critical classifications'.

General A

General B

C-10 Electrical

C-36 Plumbing

C-16 Fire Protection

C-4 Boiler and Steam Fitting

C-51 Structural Steel

And for the last I can't decide betweeen;

C-57 Water Well Drilling

C-60 Welding



How'd I do?

Close...

A
B
C10
C16
C20
C36
C38
C57

 

[License Guru]

I find it to be strange when the CSLB asks for additional proof for work experience because I have licenses for 9 trade classifications and was never asked for additional proof for work experience.

I would send some additional Work Experience Application Forms filled out by people who know you and attach a letter stating that you never obtained a permit nor an inspection because you worked with another contractor. No employee, friend nor partner is required to obtain permits when working with, or under someone else.

I think applicants read too much into what is required to qualify for a license. I don't believe that tax records, etc. are necessary to qualify because you could have worked with your father, or a friend and all you should need is one (1) person to sign one (1) Work Experience Application Form. My opinion is that you either did, or you did not and the reason for the Work Experience Verification Form is to verify that you did. Also, I don't think the person signing the Work Experience Application has to submit proof nor records because he is not the person being investigated.

Not every person gets paid money when they get work experience and to qualify for a B general building contractor you can get all the work experience you need doing the trades required by working for free on your homes, rental units your relatives, your friends and neighbors.

Suppose, during the past 5 years you built 2 homes all by yourself with absolutely no help and only 1 person on this planet knows that you built these homes, or you remodeled only 2 kitchens. If the work performed is within the requirements and these jobs took you 5 years then you have the work experience you need and your mother's or father's signature on the Work Experience form should be enough.

If you did the work then you should qualify with or without proof and the proof should be sufficient when the signature is on the Work Experience Application Form.

Don't be a chicken and fight for what is right. I find that the CSLB workers are just normal people trying to week out the weirdos and they are willing to listen and work with you on the phone. Write a letter, first, then call on the phone and back up what you wrote.

Well...... if any of this were true, what a wonderful world we'd be living in. But.... this just isn't the case.

There are specific laws the cslb uses for some of their actions, and there are underground regs they've created to allow them to do what they want.

1) Additional work experience forms won't make a difference.
2) The law does state that the cslb can ask for any additional documentation necessary to prove your experience.
3) There is nothing in the law that says the cslb can't send a verification form of some type to the certifier/employer, even though they've already signed the certifier section of the app.
4) Building 2 homes in 5 yrs does not a contractor make. The law requires that you have at least 4 yrs at the journeyman level. Building 2 homes in 5 yrs does not, necessarily, make someone a journeyman.
5) Although mom or dad could sign your experience form, but do they have the skills and knowledge to know that the work done was done at the journeyman level?
6) I've been fighting for what is right for many years, so have many others in my industry, yet, the cslb still does whatever they want. I too say fight, but if the cslb wants to see ABC and you give them XYZ, they will not give you a license.
) Call first. If you have the techs number, call! If you can't get a hold of them, write a letter, or call me. I'll give you some alternatives.

 

[pcplumber]

Well...... if any of this were true, what a wonderful world we'd be living in. But.... this just isn't the case.

There are specific laws the cslb uses for some of their actions, and there are underground regs they've created to allow them to do what they want.

1) Additional work experience forms won't make a difference.
2) The law does state that the cslb can ask for any additional documentation necessary to prove your experience.
3) There is nothing in the law that says the cslb can't send a verification form of some type to the certifier/employer, even though they've already signed the certifier section of the app.
4) Building 2 homes in 5 yrs does not a contractor make. The law requires that you have at least 4 yrs at the journeyman level. Building 2 homes in 5 yrs does not, necessarily, make someone a journeyman.
5) Although mom or dad could sign your experience form, but do they have the skills and knowledge to know that the work done was done at the journeyman level?
6) I've been fighting for what is right for many years, so have many others in my industry, yet, the cslb still does whatever they want. I too say fight, but if the cslb wants to see ABC and you give them XYZ, they will not give you a license.
) Call first. If you have the techs number, call! If you can't get a hold of them, write a letter, or call me. I'll give you some alternatives.

I think what I said is very accurate.

I am not suggesting sending 'more' Work Experience Forms. I am suggesting sending 'new' forms with information that will supersede the first forms with an additional work experience history that the applicant did not think about in the beginning. It appears that most people think they have to work a 40-hour week and get a steady paycheck to qualify for a license and this is the the error that many applicants make.

Building two homes in a 4 or 5 year period does qualify for a license when the applicant does the work required for the classification. An applicant is not immediately rejected because an applicant's mother does not have the expertise to know whether the quality of the work is within the guidelines required. All the mother needs to know is that her son did really perform the work and she must be able to describe the work performed. There are thousands of idiots who work for someone as much as 60 hours a week in their trades and they are so brainless they should not qualify. The applicant with the mother's signature has the same chance of being accepted as the idiot who worked for a company.

If a person works in the trade building 2 homes in a 4 or 5 year period and if that person does the trades required for the license classification he wants then he has the same rights to get a license as any other person regardless of who signs the work experience form as long as the person who signs the form knows that the applicant actually performed the work required and regardless of the quality of work. The work experience form does not as the signor to verify quality nor quantity.

The B General Contractor License is for a very broad field that includes hundreds of trade duties, but an applicant only has to have worked in a small number of the trades within the general contracting field. For example, a person can qualify for a B license and he never performed a plumbing, heating, dry walling, or roofing task. The average person applying for the license can qualify by having performed a small percent of the actual trades within the license and any person who knows that the applicant performed the work can submit a Work Experience Form on behalf of the applicant and the more Work Experience Forms 'the better'. The Work Experience Form asks what the signor's relationship is to the applicant and it is up the the CSLB to accept or ignore the work experience form, but if the mother is truly the only person close enough to the applicant to know what he did for 4 years then the applicant can contest the rejection (not sure about whether or not through an attorney, arbitration, etc.).

I would not 'roll over and play dead, yet! Think about what you did for the past 4 years and have every person who knows what you did submit a Work Experience Form including your mother, father, friends, neighbors, supply houses, accountant, attorney, city workers, engineers, architect, and then call the CSLB on the phone because the personal touch works wonders for credibility.

 

[License Guru]

You are entitled to your opinion, but spreading incorrect information is detrimental to those hoping to get a license some day.

I've been in the licensing industry for over 14 years. I worked at the CSLB for 5 years. I have knowledge, experience, information, and insight that you do not have.

1) Building 2 homes in 4-5 years? Wrong! Applicant would not qualify. The cslb requires that an owner/builder build at least 4 homes in one year.
2) Submitting more than one work experience form signed by different people covering the same time period is better? Wrong! Submitting more does not improve the app, or make the applicant look more qualified. Submitting an amended form adding experience not previously disclosed makes the applicant look like he's padding the experience.
3) Don't have to work a 40 hour week? Wrong! The cslb requires that an applicant worked at least 40 hours a week if they are submitting full time experience. At least 20 hours for part time.

I've been helping people on this forum for many years and have never felt like I've been in a pi$$ing match before and I don't want to start now.

But I do feel it's important that potential applicants, and current applicants, are given accurate and sound advice. pcplumber, while trying to help, is actually spreading incorrect information that may be detrimental to those in the cslb system, or looking to apply for a license.

 

[pcplumber]

You are entitled to your opinion, but spreading incorrect information is detrimental to those hoping to get a license some day.

I've been in the licensing industry for over 14 years. I worked at the CSLB for 5 years. I have knowledge, experience, information, and insight that you do not have.

1) Building 2 homes in 4-5 years? Wrong! Applicant would not qualify. The cslb requires that an owner/builder build at least 4 homes in one year.
2) Submitting more than one work experience form signed by different people covering the same time period is better? Wrong! Submitting more does not improve the app, or make the applicant look more qualified. Submitting an amended form adding experience not previously disclosed makes the applicant look like he's padding the experience.
3) Don't have to work a 40 hour week? Wrong! The cslb requires that an applicant worked at least 40 hours a week if they are submitting full time experience. At least 20 hours for part time.

I've been helping people on this forum for many years and have never felt like I've been in a pi$$ing match before and I don't want to start now.

But I do feel it's important that potential applicants, and current applicants, are given accurate and sound advice. pcplumber, while trying to help, is actually spreading incorrect information that may be detrimental to those in the cslb system, or looking to apply for a license.

MY LEGAL DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney and any applicant should seek professional advice before making any final decisions. Your best source for information can be obtained by calling the CSLB directly, but beware because not every CSLB worker has the ability to give you the correct answers. What I write are my personal opinions, experiences and this comes from more than 40 years of contracting and after obtaining licenses from the CSLB for 9 classifications.

You state that an applicant has to build 4 homes in 1 year to qualify? I hope this is not what you are telling your clients. An applicant does not have to build 1 home to qualify for a B license. He only has to have performed 'some' (don't know how many) skills within the trade. Every applicant applying for a B license has a unique set of services they want to provide and a high percent of general contractors never built a home.

For you to say that sending 1 Work Experience form is better than sending in 3 forms is nonsense. Applying for a license is not a mind game where an applicant needs to worry about whether or not the number of forms will influence a rejection. Sending fewer forms could cause a credibility problem that could have been avoided. An applicant needs only to be honest, thorough and submit every piece of evidence that will influence an acceptance.

I disagree with your statement regarding changing the information on a Work Experience Form after it is submitted. Workers at the CSLB appear to be normal and I'm sure they understand that people make mistakes and think about things that can be added to a Work Experience Form after it is submitted. I would call this, 'the blade cutting in both directions' since the CSLB has the right to request more information and the applicant has the right to submit additional information in whatever form the applicant sees that will benefit his acceptance.

The following paragraphs are from the CSLB. The question on the CSLB site is about an applicant who built 1 home and did a remodel that took a total of 1 year. The CSLB states that that 1 year would (could) apply as a credit of 1 year of work experience. As I stated, accurately, in my previous post, the CSLB information implies that an applicant could possibly build 4 homes that take 4 years and the CSLB 'may' (could or would) take this into consideration for the work experience necessary to qualify.

An applicant does not have to build 1 home nor does he have to build 4 homes in 1 year as you claim. All an applicant needs is he have worked at the journeyman level for some of the trades required for the B license.

I built the house I live in and remodeled a rental. Does this qualify me to be a journeyman since it took four (4) years to complete both projects? I also hired all the subcontractors with no problem.

Owner-builder qualifications are difficult to assess. CSLB may consider the work if there is verifiable evidence that it was completed to code. CSLB also considers how long it would have taken a licensed contractor to complete the same project. A new home and remodel could take less than a year to complete. As such, only one (1) year of experience would be credited. However, you would have still needed to complete two (2) to four (4) years of apprentice training prior to your owner-builder experience.

Learning along the way and being sure that the work is done right does not automatically qualify for journeyman accreditation. Hiring subcontractors to complete the work on the house does not qualify you to be a journeyman. Experience must be hands-on in the trade(s).


There is no mystery nor majic for filling out an application. Tell the truth and tell enough to convince the reviewer.

Have fun because life is to short to get angry when debating. I say it the way I see it and I won't change because someone disagrees. I only believe the things that can be proven and everything else is only opinions that people should not base their lifelong decisions on.