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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a contract to do the install on a panelized framing job. I had also priced the traditional frame up for the gc (who is a friend) He ended up signing with a panel company for a lump sum (material and labor) and recommended me to them to do the install. He also gave me a copy of his contract with them.


His contract reads like this: ($$$$ is subbed for actual dollar amounts)

Loose Lumber $$$$
Floor Trusses $$$$$
Wall Panels $$$$$


Framing labor $$$$$$
Panel wall labor $$$$$$
Panel floor labor $$$$$$

Would you read that as the panel wall labor being part of install or actual fabrication? Also the rep told me the the floor is NOT panels but loose floor trusses that I have to set and sheet.

The contract they gave me is for an amount that I dont think I can do it for. The amount they are charging him for "Framing Labor" is more by a fair amount than what they are paying... if you add what they are charging him for the "Panel Floor" line it is even more and if you add all the labor amounts it is like adding 40% to the number they are giving me. When I expressed to the rep that I wasnt sure if I could do that and asked if he had any more room.. he quickly stated "We give 100% of the labor price to the sub... We dont make a dime on labor"

I think I will quote him back what he is charging the builder minus 10 cents so he can make a dime. If I am reading everything correctly basically they lowballed the package knocking me out of a frame job and then are upcharging the labor by around 5k while some poor @$$ broke back framer loses his shirt on their project :furious::furious:
 

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I have a contract to do the install on a panelized framing job. I had also priced the traditional frame up for the gc (who is a friend) He ended up signing with a panel company for a lump sum (material and labor) and recommended me to them to do the install. He also gave me a copy of his contract with them.


His contract reads like this: ($$$$ is subbed for actual dollar amounts)

Loose Lumber $$$$
Floor Trusses $$$$$
Wall Panels $$$$$


Framing labor $$$$$$
Panel wall labor $$$$$$
Panel floor labor $$$$$$

Would you read that as the panel wall labor being part of install or actual fabrication? Also the rep told me the the floor is NOT panels but loose floor trusses that I have to set and sheet.

The contract they gave me is for an amount that I dont think I can do it for. The amount they are charging him for "Framing Labor" is more by a fair amount than what they are paying... if you add what they are charging him for the "Panel Floor" line it is even more and if you add all the labor amounts it is like adding 40% to the number they are giving me. When I expressed to the rep that I wasnt sure if I could do that and asked if he had any more room.. he quickly stated "We give 100% of the labor price to the sub... We dont make a dime on labor"

I think I will quote him back what he is charging the builder minus 10 cents so he can make a dime. If I am reading everything correctly basically they lowballed the package knocking me out of a frame job and then are upcharging the labor by around 5k while some poor @$$ broke back framer loses his shirt on their project :furious::furious:
the last logical step in this sequence is for you to take the job and piece it out to the south of the border types and make a few bucks ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I need the work but I cant shoot my foot off bustin my butt for nothing while they pocket 5k on me. Sad thing is somebody will take the bait
 

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So your whole problem is that they may make some money off of your labor? Thats unheard of!! No wait, thats how it usually works.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
So your whole problem is that they may make some money off of your labor? Thats unheard of!! No wait, thats how it usually works.

I dont have a problem with that at all... as long as I am making mine too. My real problem is the rep straight up telling me "We give 100% of the labor price to the sub... We dont make a dime on labor" when I told him I'd need more to do it.

Not to mention they arent just making "some" they are making 40% markup on a job that nobody will be able to make a dime on.
 

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If this helps you - on a subdivision job, the framing "contractor" was getting $6.50/ft. He was paying the framing crews $3.50, and they supplied the nails. Not a bad markup. They never knew how much he was making. I knew 'cause I was the assistant super.
 

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I need the work but I cant shoot my foot off bustin my butt for nothing while they pocket 5k on me. Sad thing is somebody will take the bait

Since they are writing you the check for the labor I doubt 10% is going to do it for them .

As a sub who routinely works for showrooms that supply the material and pay the labor the markup on my labor is closer to 25%-30% going to them .

Then again they have all the sales time in it they pay for the showroom , they write me a check regardless of whether they have been paid and if there is a problem they get the phone calls not me .



I think your best move would have your GC friend eliminate them from the labor portion and sub it directly to you . Otherwise you need to ignore the fact you know the GC . It is irrelevant to the lumber yard .

Otherwise the way they look at it is they are taking all the risks and it is their deal .

I also wouldn't worry about what they are making . I never do . I would figure the bid for what you would've done it for and see how it adds up .
If you would've bid it for what they are offering who cares if they are tacking on $5,000 ? If it's 5,000 off from what you would've bid it I'd pass.

Where I am at there are alot of companies operating this way now as sales with install is one stop shopping for Builders and GCs .

It used to be trim , cabinets , hardware and windows . Now it has moved to framing and builders I have talked to seem to really like it . They turn the house over to the lumber yard after the foundation is done and they run it until it's ready for trades .

If this is a decent company you may build a long term relationship with them . In the future you could submit your bids directly to them . Could lead to more work .
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I would consider the job if they would at least meet me half way. Their markup would put it where it should be. Just pisses me off that they came in and lowballed the job and plan to make it back at the starving framers expense. I had the traditional frame job in the bag for a decent price until they "reworked" their numbers. They have been trying to get in with this builder for a while. As it stands for what they are paying they will end up with some poor mexican trying to make enough to get back to Tijuana. Overall I feel bad for the homeowner who is a really nice guy that I have done work for before. It is his vacation home that is being rebuilt after it was burned to the ground by a psychotic kid on a crack bender.
 

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I would consider the job if they would at least meet me half way. Their markup would put it where it should be. Just pisses me off that they came in and lowballed the job and plan to make it back at the starving framers expense. I had the traditional frame job in the bag for a decent price until they "reworked" their numbers.
OK so if I'm reading this right they are $2,500 off what you would've wanted . I'd talk to them and see if you can work it out . It's a shame the salesman lied to you saying they were giving you ALL the labor money . Makes it a little more difficult as no one would believe that .

And I agree the 40% markup on the labor seems high for new construction . Why do you think they lowballed the materials ?

If they have any sense they will want you to do the job . Sure they can hire some hacks BUT they are responsible for the outcome . They are now the framing contractor as well as supplier . $2,500 could go away real quick if problems arise.

i know this type of setup for framing is taking off in my area . The framer on a townhouse project I'm working on is a reputable guy who has been around . The supplier is 84 Lumber and he is paid by them . He would not be on this job for a cut rate number . The super on the job loves this setup . He has very little involvement with the framing proccess now .

It may be in your better interests to see if you can work with this supplier . At least leave your phone # so when the cheapos screw it up they will be able to call you on the next one hopefully having learned their lesson .

One other factor is they have room on these bids . There is decent markup on both the material and the labor IMO . They can move numbers whichever way they want . I've seen it done . Just depends on the situation .

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It is actually around 5k what i'd like to get but I'd be willing to meet them halfway. I am pretty sure they lowballed to get the job (every other time they have priced stuff for him they have been high) The fact the rep swears they cant move is the deal breaker. Still waiting to see the full drawings before I turn it down. He has no idea that I have his numbers he gave to GC BTW
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
UPDATE:

I finally got the drawings and informed the super that I would need 4500 more to do the job. He gave me the old "I'll pass it along and see what we can do" line. But on a good note the salesman called me back and wants me to take care of some inspection issues on one somebody else did... at a nice hourly rate. From what he says its only a couple of hours work but he insists to go ahead and charge it as a full day. They are probably gonna take it out of Pedro's contract anyhow
 
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