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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This article by Ann Edminster is great
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/design/articles/a-better-approach-to-design-build.aspx

Apparently in 2006 the plans were drawn and everything was a go. Then the owners decided they wanted their 14,000 square foot home to be LEED.

By 2009 everyone on the design team had been replaced, often because a lack of "teamwork".

I've been a projects where the owner is constantly redesigning things, and while you can charge and back charge for ever, there is a point of murderous frustration that no one can handle.

At least they knocked the building down to 6500 square feet in the name of sustainability:laughing:
 

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IDP is a cool new way to contract a job....Especially a design build..... The architect/owner/and contractor all sign onto the same contract... Instead of the owner having two separate contracts. There is a price defined and usually shared savings..... So if the budget is 2 million and construction ends up costing 1.8 million the shared savings are usually 25%, 25%, and 50%...... the architect gets 25%, the contractor gets 25%, and the owner gets 50%.

Our company is trying to phase out CM work and push for IDP contracts.
 

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If the contracts are written right, as the cost comes down, your margins go up. It can be a very profitable way to structure things.
 

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Architect is in the catbird's seat - he gets paid for work he wouldn't be doing to begin with, but only if someone else doesn't do it:blink:
 

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How do you collect on the 150 weekly meetings that ended in a still born job?

The silly customer spent 6 percent of their adult lifetime failing to build their home, how could that waste be "substainable" (" In MY house, we respect the laws of Entropy," Homer Simpson) substainable is just Eco -Nutter jargon for perpetual motion.... Eliminated 3500' of 10k Sq ft of 8,9,10 ft ceilinged space for 6500' of cathederal ceilinged... a Eco victory?????? Use half an acre of a million dollar lot for roll your own sewer treatment wetland--Crazy,If I did that here with my sewage, I'd be arrested for pollution. Replace 10 cent a KiloWatt grid power with 1.00$ and up solar/wind batteries, smarter all the time, Radon abatement( a scam itself) right next to the picture of Square yrds of rock counters emitting more radiation then any other source common in the USA, Yes Virignia, Granite is full of urainium, no, there is enough in the USA to fuel 100% nuke power for over 1000 years.... P.S that fly ash in the Eco-crete is radioactive too......

Leed homes and commerical buildings is just another con game to seperate sophmores/Taxpayers from their disposable income.

A grass roof, with actual dirt reallllllly????? Buy local when I can ship from/to China for less than Iowa to Nebraska??? Spend 100,000.00$ on an impermable air barrier around a Church with 24 doors that open, Huh?

And 10,000 square ft of R 2 glazing......
 

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Intergated Project Delivery: Kumbyya for design build, The buzzwords are all there, even a couple of cute graphs that might, or might not relate to the real world.

The project ended up a success for her, and the owner LEED wise, but all the original other parties got the Green Axe.

It reminded me of a million dollar house a prize winning Full proffessor of Archtitecture designed, the fire place elevations was just 13' of blank paper with the words "by mason" penciled in--framing, envelope, insulation, even the footing was forgotten, "we can hang the 18 tons of rock and chimeny on the 8" basement wall can't we?"
 

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You can make a lot of money by being an early adopter of a fad. AIA has their own guide, so it's definitely going to spread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
From all I can tell is that Ann Edminster probably got paid a lot for interjecting herself onto the top of an already completed design team, and pushing the project back by many years, and her main job was to have meetings and yap her gums.
 

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I think how well something like this works depends a lot on the architect, just like anything involving an architect. Same thing goes with the customer. As a builder, a major skill becomes managing the architect and customer in all those meetings.

If the architect comes in and changes a customer's mind, convincing them to go LEEDS (or any other buzz word with specialized knowledge) in the middle of things, then the builder could get dumped just based on lack of the specialized knowledge. Possibly a route to get rid of a builder the architect doesn't want to use, but have it seem to be a customer driven move.
 

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LEED guidelines violate the Laws of Physics ( Any contract that is impossible is invalid.) and the US Constitution, "no one can impede the trade between the various States of the Union..." with its silly locally sourced (500 miles or less) mandate.

I am waiting for the LEED and members to collect a little more cash, and then watch the Tort lawyer association dismember its Kool-Aide sellers.

Agree with Anti- Wing-nut below, When the hourly bills start raining down on the buyer for filling the designers' choir seats when their preaching whatever Mania of the moment, some sanity will return. I hope.

The USA won WWII faster than these clowns built a one owner house....
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I don't see how IPD is supposed to save any money. You're supposed to hire the contractors before design starts.

Design-build works for modest sized projects, especially remodels, but at a point the architect and engineer need to do their jobs. Looks to me that IPD either costs the contractors in time or money, or is a way for the architects to slide out of the way and let somebody else do their job for them ( lazy architects? that must be a class they take. don't do anything yourself that you can't get somebody else to do ).
 

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I don't see how IPD is supposed to save any money. You're supposed to hire the contractors before design starts.

Design-build works for modest sized projects, especially remodels, but at a point the architect and engineer need to do their jobs. Looks to me that IPD either costs the contractors in time or money, or is a way for the architects to slide out of the way and let somebody else do their job for them ( lazy architects? that must be a class they take. don't do anything yourself that you can't get somebody else to do ).


Many projects in the hundreds of millions are design/build...... The problem with traditional design/build relies heavily on how well the architect does their job and the relationship between the contractor and architect.

The purpose of getting the contractor on board early is so we can offer cost effective ways to design a building. Contrary to what they think architects don't know everything.

The biggest benefit of IDP over traditional design/build is that everyone has skin in the game, something to gain and lose.
 

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If the contracts are written right, as the cost comes down, your margins go up. It can be a very profitable way to structure things.
This can be such a dangerous temptation for certain breeds of contractors who write the bill according to purchasing specific products then substituting them for mayonnaise quality materials.
 

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Been there, Done it, DIDN'T GET the CHECK...
 

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Name a couple of $100,000,000.00 design builds that don't involve Bechtel or other gigantic civil projects.


Here is a list of the top 100 design/ build firms....... The listed revenue is only from design/build work, not our total revenue... I know, I work for one of the companies on the list.

A lot of long complicated projects are design/build because construction needs to start before the design can be finished... most power plants are design build, oil refineries, etc....

Recently my office turned down an invitation to bid a 60 million dollar design/ build sports complex because we couldn't find the right architect to get in bed with for the project.

http://enr.construction.com/toplists/Top-Design-Build-Firms/001-100.asp
 
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