My Current GCs Advice on a Commercial Bid I'm Putting together

2910 Views 18 Replies 9 Participants Last post by skillman, Apr 9, 2014

kkcusce

Discussion Starter · Mar 28, 2014

Hi Everyone,

I have posted before regarding this bid, here is the run down: it is a 92 unit luxury town home complex, new construction. The average building (there are four similar types) has 1400 sq ft. 31 openings, 9 ft walls, with the exception of the vaulted master bedroom and one other bedroom. Crown through out most of the downstairs. The walls are mostly knock down. I will be spraying as much as possible.

I figured 40 gallons of paint and 130 man hours per. $1,000 in material per seem reasonable?

My originnal estimation was 275k. After a long and confusing talk with the GC of my current job though, the figure rose to 550k. He kept saying that I should be charging $30 and hour for my employees (I plan on 2 crews of 3) I was going to pay them in the $15 range. What did he mean by this? Charge $30 for the total hours (1200) or charge $30, plus my employees hours (1200*30+1200*15) Im confused. But he is my GC so I didnt want to seem, confused. So i'll ask you guys lol

Oh yeah and deadline is at the end of the business day...today!

If anyone would be willing to take a look at my blue prints and tell me if He's right about his figure I would greatly appreciate it! BTW the blue prints are maddeningly detailed.

Thank you again!

Kelly, HRCP

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

mako1

· #2 · Mar 28, 2014

Honestly,if you don't understand what the GC is telling you ,you should walk.You do have workmans comp don't you?What percentage is that on top of the $15 hr you're paying your employees.What about general liability and the rest of your overhead.Is there any markup on materials.What's your profit margin?

fugsly

· #3 · Mar 28, 2014

My thoughts are he is trying to save your butt.

15 an hour plus taxes. Insurance. Comp. Disability. Payroll paperwork. Employee lost time (employees will seldom if ever be as proficient as you ). Employee loss (materials. Tools. Etc) training. Unemployment benefits. Employee personal time (showing up late. Leave early. Long lunch. Breaks. Hang overs. Fights with the other employees. Fights witj the signigicant other....)

Ughhhh I love employees!

With that said 30 an hour?

kkcusce

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 28, 2014

He did save my butt! This isn't my first commercial job, I'm not entirely clueless. Its just the first of this magnitude. I can be too timid in my bids.

I finally have great employees, well as far as they go lol. I'm confident in our abilities to do great work. I have redone the quote, I still feel its high but, if I don't get it so be it.

Wish me luck!

fugsly

· #5 · Mar 28, 2014

Or to look at it in your numbers

40 gals per unit x 35 $ per gallon x 92 units 130000
1000 $ material x 92 units 92000
130 hours per unit x 92 units x 15 $ an hour 180000

Hmmmmm before paying anything at 275000 you are losing

130 hours per unit x 92 units x 30 $ per 3600000

So at 30 $ per hour you pay your guys (180000)
Your portion of taxes about 12 % (22000)
Comp approx 10% (18000)
Plus
Plus
Plus

See less See more

Leo G

· #6 · Mar 28, 2014

You are thinking of paying your employees $15/hr and he is telling you that you need to charge $30/hr for your employees (each). That's two different things.

You have expenses beyond the $15/hr for each of them, insurance comes to mind, plus taxes, UI and whatever more. You need to charge that out and still make a profit on each of them. Last thing you want to do is do all that work to take money out of your bank to pay off the other surcharges that are needed for each employee.

If you are paying each employee $15 then you are probably paying out $26 for each employee hour. So you plan on making $4/hr on each one? Hardly seems worth it. Start thinking in the $45/hr range.

Reactions: 1

Inner10

· #7 · Mar 28, 2014

Leo G said:
You are thinking of paying your employees $15/hr and he is telling you that you need to charge $30/hr for your employees (each). That's two different things.

You have expenses beyond the $15/hr for each of them, insurance comes to mind, plus taxes, UI and whatever more. You need to charge that out and still make a profit on each of them. Last thing you want to do is do all that work to take money out of your bank to pay off the other surcharges that are needed for each employee.

If you are paying each employee $15 then you are probably paying out $26 for each employee hour. So you plan on making $4/hr on each one? Hardly seems worth it. Start thinking in the $45/hr range.

Not to mention you need a little fudge factor in case your estimate is a little off.

kkcusce

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 28, 2014

Latest number crunch... boy this keeps on rising!

MAT: 40gal @ 35 = 1400 + other = 2k per * 92= 184k
184k + 22% mark up, = 239k

LAB: 35 an hr * 6 employees= 210 per hr
210 per hr × 1200 man hrs= 418k

418k + 239k= $657,000

Reasonable? Am I there yet

Metro M & L

· #9 · Mar 28, 2014

You can of course win some on the back end. Talk to some paint reps. Play them against each other. You will get a significant discount. Maybe you end up at 18 a gallon. A 30% discount would not be unexpected. I think a thousand dollars of sundries per unit is high. With good employee management you can make sure your employees are scraping rollers, keeping minis wet in the bucket, cleaning their brushes not losing tools o and on. That has to be measured. Every guy on the crew could be given their own kit bag. Masker, brush, tape hand tools. If they lose a tool they pay for it if they want another one. If they need more tape it gets recorded. You could lose a grand o.n laziness wi5h blue tape. I talked to one guy who was spending 1500 a year on five in 1s.

Metro M & L

· #10 · Mar 28, 2014

kkcusce said:
Latest number crunch... boy this keeps on rising!

MAT: 40gal @ 35 = 1400 + other = 2k per * 92= 184k
184k + 22% mark up, = 239k

LAB: 35 an hr * 6 employees= 210 per hr
210 per hr × 1200 man hrs= 418k

418k + 239k= $657,000

Reasonable? Am I there yet

it doesnt matter what the number is. How much are you making and is it commensurate with the risk?. If you dont know, well...

fugsly

· #11 · Mar 28, 2014

Only you know that answer but id say closer.

Dont want the thread to get closed

kkcusce

Discussion Starter · #12 · Mar 28, 2014

Haha, good point indeed. I am a registered contractor with Sherwin Williams, awesome paint and great discounts.
I will keep a tight leash in my fives

and we don't typically use a whole lot of tape, but point very well taken! Thanks

Metro M & L

· #13 · Mar 28, 2014

kkcusce said:
Latest number crunch... boy this keeps on rising!

MAT: 40gal @ 35 = 1400 + other = 2k per * 92= 184k
184k + 22% mark up, = 239k

LAB: 35 an hr * 6 employees= 210 per hr
210 per hr × 1200 man hrs= 418k

418k + 239k= $657,000

Reasonable? Am I there yet

Take that number and break it down by unit. 7k per unit inside and out sounds reasonable. Priming all interior surfaces and two coats finish. I think you will not win the bid at this number but if you do you might profit a grand per unit. Honestly have no idea 2ithout seeing the layout.

jhark123

· #14 · Mar 28, 2014

Are you doing just the inside? Remember that osha will be around a project that big, you will need a safety plan and possibly a boom lift if working on the outside.

Reactions: 1

kkcusce

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 28, 2014

Interior only

Estimator_450

· #16 · Apr 9, 2014

Good morning,

I haven't posted here in years and had to create a new name so I could.

I bid about 3mill in painting projects a month and turn down about 150 projects a month. The way the most of you are bidding these projects could not be more incorrect. My advice is sit down and figure out your operating costs. Then find the cheapest paint that will meet the specs. Don't count units, this is the first way to lose money and have no idea what your hard cost will be. Measure the wall sq. ft. per area types count doors,columns,windows etc. calculate the gallons needed apply a unit cost per area add a projected time frame to the project add man hours add for taxes add for insurance add for profit. through in 10-12% misc. and there you go.

Over the next week or so I will write up a basic tool and upload a link to this site for you to use. Let me know what you want on it and I will see what I can make for you.

Email what you want on it to [email protected] (this email will be down in about a month as I closed this company)

See less See more

Reactions: 1

mako1

· #17 · Apr 9, 2014

3 mil a month and closed the company.Must be retiring or broke?

Estimator_450

· #18 · Apr 9, 2014

mako1 said:
3 mil a month and closed the company.Must be retiring or broke?

The company I closed was a separate entity and served its purpose over the last 6 months, that is why I closed that company. I bid for our main line company about 3 mill a month. I bid mid to high-rise buildings every day all up and down the eastern seaboard with 70 painters on payroll and with additional subs to help fill in the gaps. If you don't want my help I don't care.

Reactions: 1

skillman

· #19 · Apr 9, 2014

Estimator_450 said:
The company I closed was a separate entity and served its purpose over the last 6 months, that is why I closed that company. I bid for our main line company about 3 mill a month. I bid mid to high-rise buildings every day all up and down the eastern seaboard with 70 painters on payroll and with additional subs to help fill in the gaps. If you don't want my help I don't care.

Stick around its always nice to here feed back from estimator's .

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.