I use this product all the time. You need to do 2 coats of Stealth if you reduce it as far as they tell you to. I use to thin it to 15% with Reducer and it needed to be perfect. You couldn't box coat, had to be one pass and done. Had to get the perfect thickness or it wouldn't lay our or it would drool.

Now I came up with my own formula. But I spray out of a AAA Kremlin 10:14 pump.

The mixture total is 25% thinner. My standard is 15% Reducer and 10% Flow Enhancer #2. Almost always get great results. The second coat is where you might get a problem, usually not, but that's where it's going to happen.

If you are getting microbubbles you might be injecting air in the mix by having your fan pressure up to high. It's tough to spray this out of a gravity gun. Have just a little air movement in the room. Nothing blowing directly on the finish as it flashes. Putting it on too thick will get bubbles too.

With the 25% mixture I mentioned you should get excellent results.

 

I just spent the last 2 hours with the distributor's ML rep. While it was productive, he couldn't even get it to lay perfect. And our mix was what you said - 10% flow enhancer #2 and 15% standard thinner. They don't carry the care reducer down here (yet) so he recommended just using standard thinners or butyl acetate.

With that mix I'm still getting microbubbles in the first coat. Let that cure and then scratch coat it and spray a second coat and there's less but there are still some there. They're small enough that you can't feel them, but they're visible - like little pin pricks all over the surface.

The company I'm working with builds and finishes their cabinets in Canada with the same product and they have zero issues. I hold up a door panel next to the trim I sprayed and our finish here doesn't even compare.

I've burned 20 hours and gallons of stealth and additives trying to get this right. I'm about ready to give Becker Matador a try...

 

And this is being applied with a CA Technologies AAA 14:1 pump. Although I spray tested out of a cup gun for kicks and got the same result.

 

Use the retarder instead of the standard. What gun are you using and what are your pressures?

If you are going to be finishing as a regular thing. Get a AAA Pump. Best decision you'll ever make.

 

I've got 3 AAA pumps. 2 wall mount for the spray booths and one portable one on a cart.

Air pressure is around 20psi or so, just enough to get rid of the fan tails. Fluid right now is around 30. Tip is a 411 but I'd like to try a 413 to keep the same pressures but get more material down so I can move faster and keep a better wet edge.

FYI, nearly everything I'm spraying is 16' trim.

 

When you say retarder - you're talking about Care Lacquer Retarder, not Care Reducer, correct?

 

Since you don't have access to Reducer, yes the Care Retarder. The Standard is just to quick. The only thing I'll use the Standard in is Clawlock. Krystal gets Reducer.

I usually run a 06-114 tip in the Kremlin, Fluid pressure at 35 and air at 16-18 (trigger pulled). If I go up to the 09-134 tip I'll keep the fluid the same but the air goes up 1-2 psi.

Last job I did I used the 09-134 tip for nearly the whole job. Gotta move, it's a firehouse. But like you I need to keep the wet edge on pantries and refrigerator cabinets.

Trim is easy, line 5 of them up and just spray the 16 footers. I usually lay out about 3-4 mil instead of 4-5 mil. It lays out nice.

 

I also just premix the thinners and put them into another labeled can. That way I'm only pouring out of one can one time. 20 oz of Steath with the catalyst mixed in (22 oz) gets 5 oz of thinner.

How hot is it there? You might want to reverse the percentages of the #2 and the Reducer/retarder.

 

94 in the shop plus the humidity.

When spraying the primer, I line them up like you say and knock them out. With top coat, I can't do that without overspray on the first few.

 

The 06 tip has a .011" orifice. The 09 tip has a .013" orifice.

 

The CAT AAA tips aren't labeled the same as the kremlin tips are - similar enough to understand what you meant by your tip size. The CAT tips are more like traditional airless sprayer sizing - fan width x2 and the orifice size in thousandths.

 

My MVX gun has an adjustable fan size. So the fan size max isn't really shown in the tip numbers. The 06 is the approx oz per minute that the tip will allow to flow at a standard pressure

06 tip has a 10" fan and the 09 tip has a 12" fan.

 

The bobcat gun also has an adjustable fan, however, the tip is preground with a fan pattern - hence the 8" fan as designated by the "4" in the 411 or 413 tip size. That fan pattern can be controlled with the air cup on the gun but even without air, it is still a fan (although you'll usually have tails at each end of the pattern).

Anyways, just got back to the shop. Time to look at the boards I sprayed yesterday and give them a scuff sand and a recoat and hope it lays beautifully.

 

Good luck

 

Thanks. Unfortunately no dice. From 5' away, the boards look perfect. Up close, tiny little bubbles that begin to appear about 1 minute after I'm done spraying.

 

I have no luck with it, but maybe you might. Why don't you give Resistant a try. Stealth was developed because of the exact problem you are having. Resistant had a micro bubble issue because of the shearing action of the Kremlin pump. I've only gotten Resistant to lay down good once, and it was on plastic.

Since you are only spraying trim.... Why don't you try thinning 15% with #2. Lay on one coat at about 5 mil. That's where I started when I was first spraying it.

 

Resistant will yellow, which is why the company uses stealth.

Straight 15% flow enhancer #2 resulted in real large bubbles on the surface. The size of those bubbles gets smaller when thinned with care reducer or the like but doesn't eliminate them completely.

I've shot the same mix onto glass with the same results - microbubbles.

 

Have you tried shooting it out of a gravity gun?

 

I did before on a first coat with the same results. I'm going to give it a try again as a second coat today for kicks.

At least it should rule out the pump being the issue.

 

Just sprayed it with a cup gun. Had to thin it way out to get it to spray but the end result was exactly the same. Guess that rules out the pump.

Time to spray some Mohawk cv to see what happens. Can't get Becker matador locally.

 

Can't imagine the problem. I assume you've tried many different gallons.

 

Yes, 4 different 5 gallon pails. Different catalyst. Different gallons of flow enhancer.

Just sprayed some Mohawk conversion varnish. Laid absolutely perfect from the AAA pump and a cup gun. Makes me feel better, kind of. Just wish I could get stealth to do that.

 

WTF :blink:

 

Yeah, no joke. WTF.:blink:

Honestly I don't have time to be messing with this right now. It's time to change products to something I can get here and the company can get up in Canada.

Becker was my #1 but the closest distributor is in Atlanta. :no: Maybe Chemcraft? I'll look into it tomorrow. I know Becker's standard white is the same color as Stealth's standard white - and standard white is what we're spraying. Not sure about the Chemcraft white. Mohawk's was a bit brighter. Looks good, but doesn't match.

But for now, I feel like I've methodically sprayed various combinations of stealth plus additives (yes, I keep a detailed log and have sent that log to the chemists from ML Campbell) and can't get it to lay right. If I had the same issues with the Mohawk, it would make me think it's something with my setup that is wrong. But since that laid beautifully, it's gotta be the stealth.

They spray it at our shop up in Canada and it lays out awesome. I just can't seem to replicate it, nor could the rep who was here yesterday. He told me what I was getting was "acceptable". That's BS. I hold up a panel sprayed in Canada and it's near perfect. I compare it to what I've sprayed down here and it's not even close. I told the rep my clients wouldn't accept that. He was like :blink:

Rant over.

Thanks for the responses Leo. :thumbsup:

In other news, our spray booths got 1/2 assembled today. :clap::clap:

 

I tried.

 

I couldn't sleep last night so I had a chance to think about this for a bit. With the mohawk CV, I reduced it with butyl acetate and flow enhancer #2. It laid great and stayed wet for all of 20 minutes before it began skinning over. I could see bubbles form, pop, and flow back out. It stayed wet so long I feel like I could paint the side of a barn with it while keeping a wet edge. Like this I could easily spray 5 trim boards all lined up without worry of overspray dusting and sticking.

With the stealth, it initially lays out great but the surface skins over in around a minute and then you can see the little bubbles start forming on the surface. Its almost like whatever carrier solvent they use is just flashing off too quick even when reduced with flow #2 plus care reducer. When they spray it in Canada, they reduce with care reducer and rarely ever have to add flow #2 and it stays wet long enough to spray large panels.

The only variable I can see between here and there is about 20-25 degree difference in temperature between the shops. Their building is insulated and stays relatively cool throughout the summer. Down here it's hot all day. Right now it is before 7am and it's already 85 in the shop.

They said that they have had this issue happen in Canada twice, both times during the middle of winter when their shop has the heat on.

Not sure what to think. I guess it's time to find another product.

 

The saga continues. I just spent the last 2 1/2 hours with our ML Campbell distributor's rep and the Florida ML Campbell rep. For what it's worth, ML Campbell comped me a 5 gallon of stealth for the product I've burned while trying to get it right.

The ML Campbell rep picked up 4 gallons of care reducer from the other side of Florida for me and brought it over today. Currently the distributor doesn't sell care reducer but they will be bringing it in for us.

I cut up a bunch of boards that were already double primed and ready for top coat into 3' pieces to do test sprays. 1st test was straight stealth. Didn't flow great but it laid down fine but got covered in microbubbles. Next up was adding 10% care reducer. Same result. Added 10% flow #2 - same result. We turned down the pressure on the fluid and air slightly to 15 PSI air and 25 PSI fluid. I confirmed the spray pattern was still good on a piece of cardboard. Added 5% more flow #2 (now 10% care reducer and 15% flow #2) and wouldn't you know it, it laid out fine without microbubbles.

Mixed up another batch with the same ratio and sprayed another test board. It worked. I'm cautiosly optomistic that this is the ticket. Also, it's nice to have the care reducer available.

Now if the electrical work would hurry up and get done so I can get these shiny new booths fired up I'll be a happy man.

 

Had 2 pieces to spray this morning with stealth. 2 different colors. Mixed up the 2 batches with 10% care reducer and 15% flow #2. One batch sprayed beautifully while the other got microbubbles.

 

That's the voodoo part.

 

Any thoughts about adding an touch of BC (butyl cellosolve) to the mix?