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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am tired of these door to door salesmen posing as Contractors! We just had one call us to do a job for them, and they found someone else in 24 hours because they needed it done today. Not getting the job is not my beef.......
Sometimes these types call us to clean up their work because their illegal crews are already done for the winter. All they do is bid jobs and hire someone else to do it for them. I sure wish homeowners would wake up and not hire these type of people. Obviously, he was calling the contractors in the newspaper or looking at a local list to find someone to do the job. I don't know this guy from D!ck, so I'm not sure how he even got our number. We usually don't advertise. This company also had some enforcement action against them, so I don't know how they even pulled the permit..........

Had to rant fellas.
 

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How do you identify these contractors? What should be asked of them?

I was just telling my wife about this type of "contractor" the other day, but I'm not sure how to educate someone to spot them....
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Usually it's a guy that you don't picture actually doing any work. Can't say about the rest of the country, but up here, there aren't many Contractors with their own employees.
 

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I think we need a council...

in every state and every county that the public can look to with a rating system as to what a contractors level is... New guys need the old guys as mentors and we need to stop this hacking B.S. I mean look at history and the ancients... they built creations to last, we can't give a job an extra 5 min. because we need to be on the next one to get it done before we drown in debt.
 

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When I first meet my potential clients, I'm usually dressed nice. Most of them never expect me to be the one doing the work. They are always surprised.
:laughing::laughing: It's the opposite for me I only have flannel shirts and blue jeans. Some flannels don't have holes in them though. :whistling
 

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I have no problem showing any customer for any type of job that I am a working man. Dont get me wrong I would like to put the tools down and just sell or bark orders but I enjoy the work least at most of the time. Customers who are very involved in thier homes maintence appreciate a working guy and feel more confident in the work. The ones who are price driven or ignorant to house const simply dont care who does or how it gets done as long as it gets done.
 

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I am tired of these door to door salesmen posing as Contractors! We just had one call us to do a job for them, and they found someone else in 24 hours because they needed it done today. Not getting the job is not my beef.......
Sometimes these types call us to clean up their work because their illegal crews are already done for the winter. All they do is bid jobs and hire someone else to do it for them. I sure wish homeowners would wake up and not hire these type of people. Obviously, he was calling the contractors in the newspaper or looking at a local list to find someone to do the job. I don't know this guy from D!ck, so I'm not sure how he even got our number. We usually don't advertise. This company also had some enforcement action against them, so I don't know how they even pulled the permit..........

Had to rant fellas.
Use their sales tactics and your construction methods and you'll have it made.
There are threads over in the sales and marketing forum that are talking about similar things, sales guys but real contractors.
In the replacement these sale techniques are more common.
 

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More and more of my potential home owners have been asking if I sub out or do the work myself. Some times I'm a few grand more than the companies who sub everything out but they want it done right with a owner operated crew. Other times it's all about the cheapest price and it don't really matter to the home owner who's running the job and doing the work.
 

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I can only think of once, in particular, lurching around our parts. His business card says he's an independent roofing estimator. He advertises in the 'thrifty nickel' type free classified papers for crews to do his work. I called his ad just to see what his pitch was and he went on to tell me all of the local companies he has sold for inlcuding one owned by a good friend of mine. I called my friend and he told me to give him the guys number b/c he had been going around town selling jobs under his name without any type of contract, compensation, or permission. These guys are snake oil salesmen. They offer no warranty, security, insurance, etc, etc, etc. They remind me of the gypsies that come buy and have a 'few' pieces of siding left over from a job down the street and they can do your house today only for x amount. Dirtbags.
 

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'round here the cheats price 50% materials and direct job expenses and 50% labor, O/head & profit.
Gets them right at $2-220 a sq.
And I don't think they add much, if anything for add'l. layers, bad access, etc.etc. That they just let the labor ("subs") absorb
 

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Got a call last week. The guy was building an addition and was going to do the roof himself. The inspector stopped him. (Strike 1) Now he wanted us to come out to do the job. The job was in an area where we normally don't service. It's an area that let's say typically can't afford us so we only go on referral or if for some reason it's a repeat customer. (Strike 2) They asked what it would cost and gave my assistant the foot price of the building over the phone. She called to ask if I could give a price over the phone, she already knows that's likely impossible. When she called the customer back he couldn't understand why I needed to see the job to give a price. (Strike 3). Further more he needed the job done tmorrow. (Strike 4).

They're never going to go away MJW. They have been around before me and will be around after me. Hacks and con artists infect every trade, every industry, and have been around for all time.


These contractors are easily identified as a consumer. No license? No insurance? Never done a job like this before? No customers I can speak with to ask about your work? When it is all said and done the problem is the consumer, not the contractor. If consumers did their due dilligence and started doing back ground checks instead of buying on price, they wouldn't face so many disaster jobs. If a roofing license is required, why would you hire someone without a license? Why would anyone hire anyone to work on their property with out insurance? Why would anyone hire anyone to do a job for them that they've never done before? When it's all said and done, these people are gambling, and sometimes when you gamble you lose.


Twill as you know I talk to alot of subs. I get calls all the time from them looking for work. You're pretty much dead on, on the assessment of letting the sub absorb. But take it one step further. First off most subs have no idea if they are making or losing money. But from talking with these guys, yes typically everything's included and often they charge the same for 1 layer or 2 layer. On weird jobs I have asked guys what they would want to do the job and the response is usually the same and boils down to what ever I am willing to pay. Like i said though, take it a step further, most of the time they are paying their guys by the square so the sub doesn't lost any more than the guy actually installing.
 

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Unlike you Grumpy, I don't talk to many subs. And the ones I talk to are frustrating as they don't have a clue what to charge, let alone the proper insurance or any helpful trade/ product knowledge. Pretty much they are Dunces w/ a capital "D"

What is strange is that they might possibly make decent employees, but someone is already hiring them and passing them off as "Skilled Roofers/ Tradesmen" , if in fact they aren't out there selling, er, I mean giving away their work already.

So they've already been promoted way past their skill level and pay rate. But still don't know what to charge???? I think of my B-I-L running his framing company on $35 per m/ hr. because every one else does. These "subs" know what everyone else charges -- I don't!!--- so why are they asking me??????


B-I-L was talking about going union if Chicago got the Olympic Bid. I said: "What will you do, go on strike for Less Pay and Lower Benefits?"

These idiots are on strike everyday for the right to shoot themselves in the pocketbook and drag everyone else down. Say what you want about unions, but at least they USE their 1/2 a brain
 

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Twill.......I wish I could get 220+ without insurance involved. I have friends who bid jobs at 160, the thought makes me cringe!

I have told them they are screwing us all.....and they laugh and say "If I can clear $5 a square and do 1000 square a week, blah blah blah"..........they all think they are gonna be the next Wal-Mart!

What they dont understand is they could bid it at 190-200 and still get the work and make 35-45 sq. and still do the same amount of work.

I hate cheap homeowners......but I hate cheap contractors even more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I understand the cheap guys are always going to be around. That is up to the customers.


The people I talk about charge top dollar, but have subs they don't even know do their work. Sure, the guy bidding the job is licensed and insured, but I'd bet my last dollar that the subs are not. If they are lucky, one on the crew is insured. The rest work for cash.

In the situation I wrote about in the OP.....I think the "contractor" ran into trouble with his license. That is probably the only reason he called us. To be honest, we probably would have done the job, just for some work........probably would have been the first legal subs he hired.......
 
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