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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would typically follow the method recommending by sink manufactures to install undermount stainless steel sinks with the clips that are provided. I have a scenario with custom cabinets in which the inside width of the Euro box is about 30.25". I'm being asked to maximize the size of sink that can fit in that base cabinet for undermount on quartz.

Manufacturers would want nothing bigger than a 27-28" or so sink to fit the clips.

Anyone out there use the method where the sink drops in on top of the 5/8" plywood inbetween the plywood and quartz countertop, and not using clips at all?

Any downsides or horror stories to that method?

I can get a 31-32" sink (with a bow size of 29 or 30 inches) if using that method. Otherwise, it's a much smaller kitchen sink.
 

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Can you trim the sides of the cabinet lower? If so, trim them and use clips.

I’ve never done the sandwich method you mention, but I have trimmed cabinet sides.

Tom
 

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This is done all the time with stainless it’s better than the clips and you can still get the clips in the back beside the faucet too. Composite sinks however need to have have the side panels countersunk due to the thickness of the lip.
 

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I did it that way once, just lightly sanded the top of the cabinet so sink was flush. Still going strong today

I also have done it Toms way with the clips in adjacent cabinets and dishwasher space, depending on the clips the might be a clearance issue with DW
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Can you trim the sides of the cabinet lower? If so, trim them and use clips.

I’ve never done the sandwich method you mention, but I have trimmed cabinet sides.

Tom
It's possible, I suppose, but the cabinets are all installed and there's an adjacent inside corner cabinet on the left, and dishwasher on the right. The cabinet on the left would be okay to cut because there's clearance for the inside corner Rev-a-shelf stuff. I haven't seen the proposed dishwasher to know if there's any issues there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This is done all the time with stainless it’s better than the clips and you can still get the clips in the back beside the faucet too. Composite sinks however need to have have the side panels countersunk due to the thickness of the lip.
Good to hear it's a common method. I suppose my only reservation is knowing that the sink would be super permanent and could not really ever be replaced if needed. Unless I'm not thinking something through here?

It's a stainless steel sink, so I do not imagine it will ever need to be replaced, but then again, who knows.
 

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Capra Aegagrus
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That would be my concern. If it's a cheap laminate countertop, sure. No way it's going to outlast the sink. But quartz or granite? Quite likely the sink is going to be looking pretty pathetic long before the counter is--and it would be a major job to lift the counter just to replace the sink.
 

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Quartz and granite come and go out of style like wall paper and carpet! And they do start to show signs of use fairly quickly especially chips around the top edge of the sink. By the time the client is ready to swap the sink they are going to want the latest trends to go with it. I wouldn't worry and would cross that bridge when that time comes in what...10 years? Say you did have to swap a sink. Quartz can be tossed around with next to no fear of breaking, I’ve uninstalled Quartz with the seam still glued on and transported it back to the shop then back for the install before. The bigger problem is what’s tiled on the walls locking you in. If that’s the case then go ahead and access it through the dishwasher and adjacent cabinet to cut the panel enough to drop the sink. Almost all fabricators I know aren’t using clips and silicone any more we’re using products like black mamba that set in minutes and cure by the next day. Service calls for unglued sinks have completely disappeared. If you were to put a new sink in after cutting the panel use a product like this and forget the clips.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quartz and granite come and go out of style like wall paper and carpet! And they do start to show signs of use fairly quickly especially chips around the top edge of the sink. By the time the client is ready to swap the sink they are going to want the latest trends to go with it. I wouldn't worry and would cross that bridge when that time comes in what...10 years? Say you did have to swap a sink. Quartz can be tossed around with next to no fear of breaking, I’ve uninstalled Quartz with the seam still glued on and transported it back to the shop then back for the install before. The bigger problem is what’s tiled on the walls locking you in. If that’s the case then go ahead and access it through the dishwasher and adjacent cabinet to cut the panel enough to drop the sink. Almost all fabricators I know aren’t using clips and silicone any more we’re using products like black mamba that set in minutes and cure by the next day. Service calls for unglued sinks have completely disappeared. If you were to put a new sink in after cutting the panel use a product like this and forget the clips.
Great info. I prefer to not count on short term installations and prefer to assume things will last a long time, even if a homeowner decides to change for fashion purposes. There will be a tile backsplash, so there's no way this counter is going anywhere if a sink has to be changed out.

It sounds like you're recommending to cut the adjacent panes in that situation. I suppose they could be cut later if the sink has to be removed rather than pre-cut?

That black mamba stuff looks pretty great for if someone needs a quick mounting situation, according to the Youtube video I just watched on it. However, I'm a little leery to have any material except silicone at the countertop to sink seal connection because of how mold and mildew resistant silicone is, and how mildew loves to form in that connection. Especially for flush or positive edge mounted sinks. I suppose it's on negative edge as well; it's just that nobody looks up under there (kind of like toilet bowl).
 

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During countertop install, i'd want to have that sink dropped in the cab so there's room for a bead of sealant and wiggle room ro center it properly. Just a thought.

But I have seen them sandwiched in like that. And if I had to remove it later, DW gets pulled out and that cab gets cut for some clearance. It can be done.
 

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You set the flange of the sinks on the top cabinet panel put the bead of silicone around the flange then set the top in place after you just tap the sink around with the palm of your hand to get it positioned. The mamba is to thick to use for this type of install though it doesn't compress like silicone and is used when the sink fits freely inside the cabinet. As for mold with the mamba it is water/ mold resistant just like silicone, the real problem is positive reveals they are just nasty and in the long run it’s the crud that collects that is the problem. I always tell the customer we reduce the hole by a 3/8 to give a 3/16 over hang past the sink very easy to keep clean.
 

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You set the flange of the sinks on the top cabinet panel put the bead of silicone around the flange then set the top in place after you just tap the sink around with the palm of your hand to get it positioned. The mamba is to thick to use for this type of install though it doesn't compress like silicone and is used when the sink fits freely inside the cabinet. As for mold with the mamba it is water/ mold resistant just like silicone, the real problem is positive reveals they are just nasty and in the long run it’s the crud that collects that is the problem. I always tell the customer we reduce the hole by a 3/8 to give a 3/16 over hang past the sink very easy to keep clean.
Much better than a stupid lip of sink showing

On a job now where installer used latex caulk at sink/top seam on a farmhouse sink
Fell out after 10 months, now have to check all of the sinks in the house
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You set the flange of the sinks on the top cabinet panel put the bead of silicone around the flange then set the top in place after you just tap the sink around with the palm of your hand to get it positioned. The mamba is to thick to use for this type of install though it doesn't compress like silicone and is used when the sink fits freely inside the cabinet. As for mold with the mamba it is water/ mold resistant just like silicone, the real problem is positive reveals they are just nasty and in the long run it’s the crud that collects that is the problem. I always tell the customer we reduce the hole by a 3/8 to give a 3/16 over hang past the sink very easy to keep clean.
I'm not a fan of positive reveal at all, but I also don't like much negative reveal. Things drip down the edge and it is rarely cleaned (because it's unseen), and it also reduces the usable opening. 3/16 sounds pretty good though, but right on the money or 1/16" looks great, in my humble opinion.
 

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I would typically follow the method recommending by sink manufactures to install undermount stainless steel sinks with the clips that are provided. I have a scenario with custom cabinets in which the inside width of the Euro box is about 30.25". I'm being asked to maximize the size of sink that can fit in that base cabinet for undermount on quartz.

Manufacturers would want nothing bigger than a 27-28" or so sink to fit the clips.

Anyone out there use the method where the sink drops in on top of the 5/8" plywood inbetween the plywood and quartz countertop, and not using clips at all?

Any downsides or horror stories to that method?

I can get a 31-32" sink (with a bow size of 29 or 30 inches) if using that method. Otherwise, it's a much smaller kitchen sink.
Never seen a kitchen sink with a corner that was completely flat. Most have a raised edge to maintain ridgity. guess you can trim around that as well.

I guess the only issue will come if you ever needed to change sinks.
 

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Kowboy
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A 33" sink undermounts in a 33" cabinet; I don't care what the manufacturers say:

 

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Kowboy
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A negative reveal creates a crud ledge that difficult to see and clean. A flush reveal creates an elongated silicone joint that frays, catches crud, and turns black and nasty. A slight positive reveal makes a perfect no maintenance joint between sink and stone.

Countertop Property Kitchen sink Kitchen Ingredient

Perfect slight positive reveal.

Water Automotive tire Tap Wood Plumbing fixture


Nasty black frayed contaminated flush reveal.
 

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Kowboy
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Wood Scaled reptile Reptile Automotive tire Gas


Clips are leaking junk. Never use them. Strap sinks in place with a Hercules Universal Sink Harness from BB Industries or a Sink Strap or two from Regent Stone Products.
Sink Light Kitchen sink Wood Plumbing fixture


Wood Gas Outdoor furniture Tints and shades Metal


The leaking clips cause the reinforcing steel rods to oxidize, expand, and literally blow up the countertop.

Kitchen sink Tap Sink Plumbing fixture Countertop


Strap an apron front in for the cure.
 

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Kowboy
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Good to hear it's a common method. I suppose my only reservation is knowing that the sink would be super permanent and could not really ever be replaced if needed. Unless I'm not thinking something through here?

It's a stainless steel sink, so I do not imagine it will ever need to be replaced, but then again, who knows.
I'll change any undermounted sink in an hour and a quarter, plumbing included.
 
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