Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Masons:

I arrived to frame an addition to a house. The addition has a basement built with CMUs over a poured foundation. I am to frame on top of this basement walls.
Unfortunately the CMU walls attached to the existing house are out of square to the house materially, meaning angles to the house are NOT 90*. This results in one wall longer than the opposite by 4.5" on 23'. The wall opposite to the house is not parallel to the house, because it was built at 90* to the not squared walls coming from the house. In summary, I have a trapezoid with 2 90*, 1 angle shorter than 90* and other more than 90*.

To make the addition square to the house I could play with my sills pulling "out" on one side and "in" the other. I would need to play for 6". But unfortunately, this addition calls for steel columns (long spans) directly on top of the CMUs, no sill plate to play with.

Besides asking the general contractor to destroy his foundation, is there any solution to this "out-of square" problem.

Thanks experience Masons out there.

JOrge
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,653 Posts
Sounds like they went with the cheap guy.

If there is enough room on the footer you can lay up 4" block to make the wall wider, then have room to fudge the sill plate.
 

·
stacker of sticks
Joined
·
8,502 Posts
We had one 2 years ago that was 7" any 24'. That was the last time I used that mason. We put a beam in and changed the direction of the floor joists in the section so we could hang over the foundation. That particular wall was a gable and didn't have a load on it, and the exterior was inside the garage. We then had a different mason build a fake wall with 4" block to make it look right in the garage

Actually it was only 12' now that I think about it, the garage stuck out the front of the house by another 12'
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Columns are HSS 3"x3" sit:
First one next to the house:
Second one after a ~4 ft span
Third at 12 feet span from second one
Final corner column at 4 feet from third

Adding to a total of about 21 feet on the long dimension, weight bearing columns in a wall full of windows. Opposite wall planed to be the same, only difference is that is has transom windows, but same structure sitting on 4 HSS 3x3".

I am planning to frame everything on wood with temp walls that I will later replace with the steel columns.

per engineering and architect drawings, columns are supposed to be flush with the foundation. Very particular.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
We had one 2 years ago that was 7" any 24'. That was the last time I used that mason. We put a beam in and changed the direction of the floor joists in the section so we could hang over the foundation. That particular wall was a gable and didn't have a load on it, and the exterior was inside the garage. We then had a different mason build a fake wall with 4" block to make it look right in the garage

Actually it was only 12' now that I think about it, the garage stuck out the front of the house by another 12'
Very smart solution to the problem. My wall IS bearing, and not a wall per se, but only columns that support the weight. A similar solution could be to set my steel columns over a parallam running across, sitting on the CMU wall, exactly at the position of the colmuns. I will ask the structural if he is ok setting the steel column over the parallam.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,139 Posts
Masons:

I arrived to frame an addition to a house. The addition has a basement built with CMUs over a poured foundation.

JOrge
Did the mason raise up the foundation with a few courses of blocks?

If thats the case the contractor probably said we need you to raise the foundation up "***". Not his fault if thats the case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,170 Posts
Not being an expert on construction law,I do know that when one trade starts to place their material upon another s work,in essence,they are placing their stamp of approval on it.


Many moons ago,a library foundation I was to build on was out of square by 7" and had a 3" inward bow in a long wall. I was not the GC on the job. He told me to start the masonry,I said fix the foundation,he said no, and if I did not start immediately he would sue me for specific performance. I said have at it and walked. Never heard a peep out of him again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Did the mason raise up the foundation with a few courses of blocks?

If thats the case the contractor probably said we need you to raise the foundation up "***". Not his fault if thats the case.
I think that is the case, Contractor measured, marked and Mason built on his marks. Makes it harder for both of us subcontrators of the guy who can't measure well...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,139 Posts
Not being an expert on construction law,I do know that when one trade starts to place their material upon another s work,in essence,they are placing their stamp of approval on it.


Many moons ago,a library foundation I was to build on was out of square by 7" and had a 3" inward bow in a long wall. I was not the GC on the job. He told me to start the masonry,I said fix the foundation,he said no, and if I did not start immediately he would sue me for specific performance. I said have at it and walked. Never heard a peep out of him again.
I would say if the builder hires a mason to raise the foundation he has already approved the foundation. If its not acceptable then why bring someone to put more stuff on top of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,170 Posts
I would say if the builder hires a mason to raise the foundation he has already approved the foundation. If its not acceptable then why bring someone to put more stuff on top of it.



In the scenario I mentioned,the GC was an absolute skinner. They poured the foundation and it was not yet backfilled. What caught my attention and sent my antenna up was this. Picture a large foundation for an approx.10,000 Sq. ft. building,10 ft.high walls,not yet backfilled. On the front long wall is a big old blue tarp held down by two upside down by two concrete chutes. I asked two of the laborers who worked for the GC,what gives with the chutes and tarps. They just shrug their shoulders and quickly walk away. I grab a long 2"x and shove the chutes off. The bow was visible without even siting the wall. That is when I grab my 250' tape and have a closer look. Glad I never called material yard to drop off first round of material.


That GC eventually went belly up,they did some of the bootiest work around,pure hobos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,170 Posts
At this point it is not your problem. Tell them to call you when they get it figured out.



Some real sound advice here ! Most times,you are better off walking away when you spot a "********" than take a swing at him.:laughing:



Remember, 'discretion is the better part of valor"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,379 Posts
I bet the footings were not put in by the contractor for the block walls.

Normally, a concrete and masonry contractor does both the footings and layout. The reason is that a mason wants things square to make things easier. Same criteria as a framer en the end.

For new construction with basements, the concrete and masonry contractor usually does the layout. Often, here, he may also do or hire the excavator in order to coordinate things. Usually, this is on new construction where the mason contractor does all work for the builder since the concrete portion goes from initial layout to pouring the sidewalks, basement slabs and garage slabs.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top