im in central ohioGrumpy said:I knew a guy who would get drunk at local bars and walk home through alleyts ripping down downspouts. I worked for him for a little while until I had my moment of clarity and realized how big a scum bag this guy was/is.
Teetor in my area pretty much even the knew homes are built with gutters.
Ramz, where are you located?
when you say internet advertising are you talking about a website or some other type on the internet I have been thinking about getting a website , but I do not know where to begin ,thanks for all the infoGrumpy said:Ok since we are not competitors I do alot of internet advertising. It really works for my area.
The average life cycle of aluminum gutters is about 15 years. The gutter's are still in good condition, they need resealing at the corners and outlets, but people repalce them because the baked on paint begins to fade and stain. Keep that in mind.
Now find subdivisions about 10+ years old and start direct mail and door hangers. I personally have found the yellow pages to be a sucky method of advertising. Unless you have one of the first pages there is no point and the first few pages are already reserved for years in advance, not to mention will cost ya hundreds, if not thousands per month.
Yes, a website should be the corner stoen of your itnernet advertising. In my opinion a website is equally as important as a phone number is, to a business.ramzgutters said:when you say internet advertising are you talking about a website or some other type on the internet I have been thinking about getting a website , but I do not know where to begin ,thanks for all the info
No Bob, the Grump was a lowley laborer back then. This is when my career first began. I don't know what he'd do. I think he had his wife go pass out flyers or something.Glasshousebltr said:Hey Grump, your sites looking good.:Thumbs:
The fella ripped down the downspouts then what? Visited the next day or something? Sent the Grump in for the kill?
I have found yellow page advertising, in my area, to be worthless. I have placed a small alphebatical listing in the books incase someone goes into the book looking for me specifically. The yellow pages ARE losing lots of market share in both lookers and advertisers. I have found if you do not have the first few pages they are worthless. Any monies you spend is an expense and not an investment. Also the yellow page sales people are REAL SHARKS. Theya re trained to confuse you and show you how you only need 2-3 jobs per year to break even on their marketing. It's all B.S. do the real numbers yourself and you will come up with different results.Mike Finley said:Yellow page advertising is excellent resource for business for certain companies, usually service companies and smaller priced work benefits greatly from yellow page users. Remember the size of the ad determines the placement, but the design of the ad determines your response rate. Yellow page advertising is an art and a science.
I am in the service industry, I tell you that in the books for my area the first 10 pages are filled with full page adds. That means a customer who goes to look for roofing digs through 10 pages before they get to smaller adds, which are now half page adds and about 10 pages of those. So we are 20 pages into the roofing section and already 30 companies thrown at the customer. Now we go to 1/3 page adds, then 1/4 page adds. BTW a 1/4 page add in black and yellow costs about $480 (black, white, yellow about $560) a month and is located about page 27.Mike Finley said:There is a reason you see the same people year after year using the same ad over and over again in yellow pages and spending big money on them, I think it is a bit egotistical to believe these people are all stupid instead of understanding that they probably are spending their money year after year because they are getting results. There are definitly some category killers in yellow pages that are extremely effective. Service and repair work is hugely effective. Custom building - not so good.
Yes, I could easily be called egotistical when it comes to advertising. I have a degree in advertising and marketing, I have worked with and been taught by some of the best in the business, as a result I am a ridiculously effective marketer, not because I say so, but because the results do. I have been marketing myself, my products, other people’s products, and even entire companies for many, many years. My track record when it comes to advertising runs from excellent to absurdly astronomically unbelievable. As far as throwing around percentages or statistics, you haven't seen anything. I made a living by throwing around statistics and percentages and was quite well paid for knowing them, so having access to accurate numbers is just part of who I am.pondman said:I think it is abit egotistical to think you know so much about advertising and can quote percentages as you do.
Why would you throw only Grumpy in there and leave yourself out? Sorry, I doubt him or myself are going to let you play your games of divide and conquer.pondman said:I hope you weren't calling GRUMP an ******* because his opinion differed from yours...........
Was actually talking about myself, glad you didn't take it the wrong way.Grumpy said:LOL pond, I don't think Mike was calling me an A-hole. "Opinions are like assholes, we all have 'em and they all stink!" is an old saying. I base my opinions on my personal experiences just like Mike does. If the yellow pages work for him, then I am happy for him. I just can't afford to make them work for me.
I agree with you that some of what you are saying is basically true and soundly based upon logical thnking, but without going into a ton of detailed crap just consider that not only are the yellow pages segmented in regard to how to advertise in them, but they are highly segmented in regard to how people use them.Grumpy said:I am in the service industry, I tell you that in the books for my area the first 10 pages are filled with full page adds. That means a customer who goes to look for roofing digs through 10 pages before they get to smaller adds, which are now half page adds and about 10 pages of those. So we are 20 pages into the roofing section and already 30 companies thrown at the customer.
Maybe yes, maybe no? You should take into consideration that you are very advanced compared to the average contractor in the use of online leads and as well as converting them to sales. You have spent years honing your abilities in regard to online leads and are probably getting above average rates of return on your investment in them now because of it, this skews the ROI vs the average contractor. There are a few factors that could effect your effectiveness in yellow page advertising too. With online leads you have been able to just about do real time testing, day to day over the years seeing what works and what doesn't and discarding the ineffective methods and concentrating on the effective methods. Yellow page advertising has none of this immediacy, for Gods sake you have 1 shot a year at tweaking! That is a significant hurdle to overcome and is part of the reason why you would have such a hard time getting comparable results in the two mediums at this point, and part of the reason so many people end up with bad results in yellow page advertising and never use it again.Grumpy said:I would prefer to spend my money elsewhere. Why? I could get AT LEAST 24 service magic leads per month for the same cost. I could get zero leads per month with the yellow pages adds.
I totally agree, only I would take it one step further and would say to include internet marketing as part of your marketing tool box just as you should include a bit of everything else also.Grumpy said:not to mention there are so many computer saavy home owners and receive a much better ROI, that you'd be a fool to NOT internet market your services..