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owner of a seamless gutter biz for 10+ years looking for some new marketing ideas ,anyone with some ideas would be appreciated
 

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Sneak out in the middle of the night, pour concrete in the downspouts of a hole neighborhood, then hit the area with flyers.:cheesygri

Just kidding.

Bob
 

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My first thought was 'Who doesn't have or who needs gutters?'. The answer that popped into my mind was 'owners of new homes'.
Newly built homes are public record and you might want to pitch your product to some GC's that are building new homes.
 

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I knew a guy who would get drunk at local bars and walk home through alleys ripping down downspouts. I worked for him for a little while until I had my moment of clarity and realized how big a scum bag this guy was/is.

Teetor in my area pretty much even the new homes are built with gutters.

Ramz, where are you located?
 

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Grumpy said:
I knew a guy who would get drunk at local bars and walk home through alleyts ripping down downspouts. I worked for him for a little while until I had my moment of clarity and realized how big a scum bag this guy was/is.

Teetor in my area pretty much even the knew homes are built with gutters.

Ramz, where are you located?
im in central ohio
 

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Ok since we are not competitors :) I do alot of internet advertising. It really works for my area.

The average life cycle of aluminum gutters is about 15 years. The gutter's are still in good condition, they need resealing at the corners and outlets, but people repalce them because the baked on paint begins to fade and stain. Keep that in mind.

Now find subdivisions about 10+ years old and start direct mail and door hangers. I personally have found the yellow pages to be a sucky method of advertising. Unless you have one of the first pages there is no point and the first few pages are already reserved for years in advance, not to mention will cost ya hundreds, if not thousands per month.
 

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Grumpy said:
Ok since we are not competitors :) I do alot of internet advertising. It really works for my area.

The average life cycle of aluminum gutters is about 15 years. The gutter's are still in good condition, they need resealing at the corners and outlets, but people repalce them because the baked on paint begins to fade and stain. Keep that in mind.

Now find subdivisions about 10+ years old and start direct mail and door hangers. I personally have found the yellow pages to be a sucky method of advertising. Unless you have one of the first pages there is no point and the first few pages are already reserved for years in advance, not to mention will cost ya hundreds, if not thousands per month.
when you say internet advertising are you talking about a website or some other type on the internet I have been thinking about getting a website , but I do not know where to begin ,thanks for all the info
 

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Hey Grump, your sites looking good.:Thumbs:

The fella ripped down the downspouts then what? Visited the next day or something? Sent the Grump in for the kill?

Bob
 

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I've had gutters worked on 3 times. All because of exterior remodelling. Once was adding a deck so I needed to get rid of a down spout, had the gutters redone over the deck to direct water to a single down spout. Another time need to reroute a down spout because of new landscaping in front yard, the down spout went underground and through the yard, but new hardscape features were going to get in the way, so once again redid gutters to exit at new downspouts.

Each time I found them by the Yellow pages. Maybe I'm lucky but all gutter companies I have dealt with seem to be competent, little rocket science involved and I think most consumers think the same thing. I have always used the guys who extrude the seamless ones.

Yellow page advertising is excellent resource for business for certain companies, usually service companies and smaller priced work benefits greatly from yellow page users. Remember the size of the ad determines the placement, but the design of the ad determines your response rate. Yellow page advertising is an art and a science.
 

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ramzgutters said:
when you say internet advertising are you talking about a website or some other type on the internet I have been thinking about getting a website , but I do not know where to begin ,thanks for all the info
Yes, a website should be the corner stoen of your itnernet advertising. In my opinion a website is equally as important as a phone number is, to a business.

After you get our website up and running you need to get it listed in all the major directories, and don't forget the small directories too. Getting listed in the small directories might not bring in alot of hits but will boost your page rank in some of the big directories. You'd probably want to hire a pro to do all this for you it can be a full time job.

Next pay for placement and pay to get your site listed at the tops of many directories. Don't forget online yellow pages. They've done ok for me.

Direct mail will work, but you have to remember to keep hitting the same people over and over. You are not going to get a good return on your first mailing, but by your third the people will remember you and really start to call.


Glasshousebltr said:
Hey Grump, your sites looking good.:Thumbs:

The fella ripped down the downspouts then what? Visited the next day or something? Sent the Grump in for the kill?

Bob
No Bob, the Grump was a lowley laborer back then. This is when my career first began. I don't know what he'd do. I think he had his wife go pass out flyers or something.


Mike Finley said:
Yellow page advertising is excellent resource for business for certain companies, usually service companies and smaller priced work benefits greatly from yellow page users. Remember the size of the ad determines the placement, but the design of the ad determines your response rate. Yellow page advertising is an art and a science.
I have found yellow page advertising, in my area, to be worthless. I have placed a small alphebatical listing in the books incase someone goes into the book looking for me specifically. The yellow pages ARE losing lots of market share in both lookers and advertisers. I have found if you do not have the first few pages they are worthless. Any monies you spend is an expense and not an investment. Also the yellow page sales people are REAL SHARKS. Theya re trained to confuse you and show you how you only need 2-3 jobs per year to break even on their marketing. It's all B.S. do the real numbers yourself and you will come up with different results.
 

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I'm with you Grump...........Would never use yellow pages in today's market. Especially in a start up situation. Only published once a year and you have to get that just right. You have no say on how add is placed unlike newspaper.

With today's marketing, it is mostly web based. Direct mail and flyers are your best for the money besides internet.
 

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Yep, opinions are like assholes, everybody has got one. Seeing how at least 75% of yellow page advertisements are done incorrectly I can see how it would be easy for someone without the ability to do effective yellow page advertising to end up with poor results as you guys have. There are so many myths in yellow page advertising such as color sells and the bigger the ad the more response you get, thats all wrong and without the skills needed you probably have no choice but to end up wasting your money.

However, effective techniques applied to any marketing method, be it newspaper, doorhangers or direct mail will make or break your ROI and determine your response rate.

There is a reason you see the same people year after year using the same ad over and over again in yellow pages and spending big money on them, I think it is a bit egotistical to believe these people are all stupid instead of understanding that they probably are spending their money year after year because they are getting results. There are definitly some category killers in yellow pages that are extremely effective. Service and repair work is hugely effective. Custom building - not so good.
 

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I think it is abit egotistical to think you know so much about advertising and can quote percentages as you do. Being a VP of several Major National Homebuilders and in charge of million dollar advertising budgets, I hire focus groups to tell me where the market is heading. We have many categories, not just new homes. The yellow pages ranked at the bottom 10% for response.

Not my ego MIKE.......... public say so. Advertising correctly is a science. Market driven.

This is not an opinion, but I'm sure you will have an opinion.

I hope you weren't calling GRUMP an ******* because his opinion differed from yours...........

Mike does your brother sell for the Yellow Pages??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

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Mike Finley said:
There is a reason you see the same people year after year using the same ad over and over again in yellow pages and spending big money on them, I think it is a bit egotistical to believe these people are all stupid instead of understanding that they probably are spending their money year after year because they are getting results. There are definitly some category killers in yellow pages that are extremely effective. Service and repair work is hugely effective. Custom building - not so good.
I am in the service industry, I tell you that in the books for my area the first 10 pages are filled with full page adds. That means a customer who goes to look for roofing digs through 10 pages before they get to smaller adds, which are now half page adds and about 10 pages of those. So we are 20 pages into the roofing section and already 30 companies thrown at the customer. Now we go to 1/3 page adds, then 1/4 page adds. BTW a 1/4 page add in black and yellow costs about $480 (black, white, yellow about $560) a month and is located about page 27.

Now if I were to spend $1,000 a month for a full page add, I would be the 11th page. I'd probably do black white and yellow instead of just black and yellow because most people who do the full page adds do black and yellow, so mine would grab more attention. That's probably (I'm now guessing here) put me at $1,200... for that $1,200 per month I would prefer to spend my money elsewhere. Why? I could get AT LEAST 24 service magic leads per month for the same cost. I could get zero leads per month with the yellow pages adds.

One thing to consider is that the effectiveness of yellow pages depends on your target customer and your local market. My guess is with so many older folks in FL and AZ, yellow pages are still effective. Here in Chicago the yellow pages are so overly saturated it is easy to get lost in the mix, not to mention there are so many computer saavy home owners and receive a much better ROI, that you'd be a fool to NOT internet market your services.

LOL pond, I don't think Mike was calling me an A-hole. "Opinions are like assholes, we all have 'em and they all stink!" is an old saying. I base my opinions on my personal experiences just like Mike does. If the yellow pages work for him, then I am happy for him. I just can't afford to make them work for me.
 

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pondman said:
I think it is abit egotistical to think you know so much about advertising and can quote percentages as you do.
Yes, I could easily be called egotistical when it comes to advertising. I have a degree in advertising and marketing, I have worked with and been taught by some of the best in the business, as a result I am a ridiculously effective marketer, not because I say so, but because the results do. I have been marketing myself, my products, other people’s products, and even entire companies for many, many years. My track record when it comes to advertising runs from excellent to absurdly astronomically unbelievable. As far as throwing around percentages or statistics, you haven't seen anything. I made a living by throwing around statistics and percentages and was quite well paid for knowing them, so having access to accurate numbers is just part of who I am.

pondman said:
I hope you weren't calling GRUMP an ******* because his opinion differed from yours...........
Why would you throw only Grumpy in there and leave yourself out? Sorry, I doubt him or myself are going to let you play your games of divide and conquer.

If you most know my comment of "Yep, opinions are like assholes, everybody has got one." was directed at myself, as I followed it up directly with my own opinion. Since you seem to be continuously looking for an argument I can understand why you had a guilty conscious and thought it was directed at yourself.
 

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Grumpy said:
LOL pond, I don't think Mike was calling me an A-hole. "Opinions are like assholes, we all have 'em and they all stink!" is an old saying. I base my opinions on my personal experiences just like Mike does. If the yellow pages work for him, then I am happy for him. I just can't afford to make them work for me.
Was actually talking about myself, glad you didn't take it the wrong way.

Grumpy said:
I am in the service industry, I tell you that in the books for my area the first 10 pages are filled with full page adds. That means a customer who goes to look for roofing digs through 10 pages before they get to smaller adds, which are now half page adds and about 10 pages of those. So we are 20 pages into the roofing section and already 30 companies thrown at the customer.
I agree with you that some of what you are saying is basically true and soundly based upon logical thnking, but without going into a ton of detailed crap just consider that not only are the yellow pages segmented in regard to how to advertise in them, but they are highly segmented in regard to how people use them.

In yellow page advertising it is a proven fact -but good luck getting a yellow book sales person to admit it - that there are definable ways people use the yellow pages. There are some people who only choose a company from the full page ads - they see the full page ads as demonstrating a company that is substantial - they want the best with the least amount of baggage in regard to completing thier job, they don't have the ability to waste money by wasting their time, they look for a quick solution and see a big successful company that uses full page ads and will solve their problem maybe not the cheapest, but probably the most competently. This is no different then the way consumers feel about shopping at a big brand name franchised store vs a mom and pop, consumers know they will get different benefits from either one and will choose one vs the other and back and forth often in the same week based upon their current expectations and needs.

Other people would never call one of the full page ads because they equate that huge ad with higher rates to pay for it - they look at the 1/2 page or smaller display ads because in thier minds these are the smaller guys, the advertising costs won't be passed onto them. These guys may not have been around for 20 years, they might be up and coming but still do a fine job. This is a real oversimplification, but the yellow page users are very segmented in their use of the books, I could go on and on, but what you should at least get is that there is a certain percentage of potential customers for every category of ad by size in the yellow pages. Just because you are 30 pages back doesn't mean you are truly 30 pages back in the listings, if you are 2 pages back in the smaller ads you are really only 2 pages back not 2 pages plus all the full page ads. This brings me back to the fact that ad size isn't as important as the quality of your ad. You really are only competing with the ads on your page.

Yellow pages are truly fascinating, the next time you use them think about the process you used, ask a friend to show you how they went about calling companies from it, the results are really suprising how different everybody uses them.

Grumpy said:
I would prefer to spend my money elsewhere. Why? I could get AT LEAST 24 service magic leads per month for the same cost. I could get zero leads per month with the yellow pages adds.
Maybe yes, maybe no? You should take into consideration that you are very advanced compared to the average contractor in the use of online leads and as well as converting them to sales. You have spent years honing your abilities in regard to online leads and are probably getting above average rates of return on your investment in them now because of it, this skews the ROI vs the average contractor. There are a few factors that could effect your effectiveness in yellow page advertising too. With online leads you have been able to just about do real time testing, day to day over the years seeing what works and what doesn't and discarding the ineffective methods and concentrating on the effective methods. Yellow page advertising has none of this immediacy, for Gods sake you have 1 shot a year at tweaking! That is a significant hurdle to overcome and is part of the reason why you would have such a hard time getting comparable results in the two mediums at this point, and part of the reason so many people end up with bad results in yellow page advertising and never use it again.

Grumpy said:
not to mention there are so many computer saavy home owners and receive a much better ROI, that you'd be a fool to NOT internet market your services..
I totally agree, only I would take it one step further and would say to include internet marketing as part of your marketing tool box just as you should include a bit of everything else also.

Glad you included the One thing to consider is that the effectiveness of yellow pages depends on your target customer and your local market. My guess is with so many older folks in FL and AZ, yellow pages are still effective. Here in Chicago the yellow pages are so overly saturated because that is so important about what we all need to keep in mind when we are talking about overhead, marketing and everything else. What works in one area doesn't necessarily mean it will work in another and what doesn't work in one area or for another person doesn't mean that someone somewhere else will experience the same results. That is really usually my whole point when people state some generalized statement about something that tries to blanket the entire subject - regions, markets or mediums, individual experiences are a sampling and not the basis for what everyone's experience is going to end up being.
 

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You sling so much shiiittttttttt (this does not include stats, as in your next to last post) that it was not even worth reading the loooooooooooooonggggggggggg last post.

Are you just angry that ELWAY retired?

I wish I had your brains, with my money I could retire in maybe 60 years !! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Go buy two more yellow page adds and make the world a better place.
 

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I tried to take a nap but couldn't sleep. The only thing we had for a pillow were a couple of damn yellow page books. They weren't worth a damn.
 
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