Been thinking about laws, codes and regulations lately. I know that if I do "A" then it will result in "B", usually. The laws are made to protect people and property, among other things. We don't have to pay anyone to find out what the laws are. You can make a call to the police station or a government official and they are usually more than helpful. So in effect there is a network of support to assist you in following the law. Why is it that we don't have the same line of thought around building codes? Why do I have to pay hundreds/thousands of dollars for a book of laws/codes? Stores spend millions of dollars marketing themselves as "Do It Yourself" centers. Mike Homes shtick is fixing ill informed peoples screw ups. In stead of kidding ourselves and thinking only the trades should be doing the repairs, should we not find a way to support those that are doing the repairs and arm them with the facts, make code books readily assessable to everyone?
Make Code Books Free
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I don't know about Canada...but here you can go into any building officials office and look at any book he has...as a matter of fact any piece of paper in his office is available for the people to look at. Its all public domain. You can also ask the building official a building related question, I am sure thay will help. :thumbsup:
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How the hell could they ever be free? The Board decides what's in the code, the paper isn't free, the ink isn't free, assembling the books aren't free, the truckers who deliver the books don't work for free, and the people working at the book store don't work for free either, and you still want the book for nothing??!!??
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Try two sources:
1. Your local building department.
2. Your library.
Typically, one or both of them will have a copy for anyone to review.
The information in them is usually free. But the book itself is what costs money to print, write, distribute, ship, etc. You honestly think all those books that line a lawyers office are free????
1. Your local building department.
2. Your library.
Typically, one or both of them will have a copy for anyone to review.
The information in them is usually free. But the book itself is what costs money to print, write, distribute, ship, etc. You honestly think all those books that line a lawyers office are free????
I think if we take a more open appoach as to what free means then we move away from book form and see that there are many ways to distribute information, ie internet.
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i know where hes coming from, in 1999 the code was only $90 if you wanted section 9 (residential), the commercial section was available seperate. when the 2005 code book came out it was $200 and came in 2 binders, the cd is the same price but much easier to find things on.
im kinda scared to see what the 2010 codebook is going to cost, i just recieved the newsletters they send out and listed is the seminars regarding code which is put on everyso often. its only available to people within the industry and it costs like $400 for one day and the seminar is 2 or 3 days.
yes you can get the codes online however only to look at, you cant print off the page your looking at which you may need depending on the situation your in when it comes time for an inspection. sometimes we need the page right in front of us to interpret the code with a inspector.
im kinda scared to see what the 2010 codebook is going to cost, i just recieved the newsletters they send out and listed is the seminars regarding code which is put on everyso often. its only available to people within the industry and it costs like $400 for one day and the seminar is 2 or 3 days.
yes you can get the codes online however only to look at, you cant print off the page your looking at which you may need depending on the situation your in when it comes time for an inspection. sometimes we need the page right in front of us to interpret the code with a inspector.
Is it possible to copy and paste it into a word document and then print that? NOT being a smartass just asking.
If not then I think that's BS that smaller companies would need to tack one more "extra charge" into their expenses. GOD KNOWS that government insitutions like raping you but they should include at least one of the two(comercial or residential depending on your preference) with your package AT NO EXTRA CHARGE when you GC's pass your test and then the updates when you renew!
IMHO
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If you are a real contractor, it is up to you decide what tools you need to run your business.
When considering your business, the costs include, your truck and operation costs (payments, fuel,insurance, accountants, tax preparers, etc.). A bad installation not complying with the codes (which you should know) can wipe out everything you invested. You should have a reasonably current code book but it is not manditory. It is up to you since no laws say you must buy a code.
Go on line for bits and pieces (and spend a lot more valuable time) or just keep current - it is up to you.
Only the unemployed go to look for free tools to make a living.
When considering your business, the costs include, your truck and operation costs (payments, fuel,insurance, accountants, tax preparers, etc.). A bad installation not complying with the codes (which you should know) can wipe out everything you invested. You should have a reasonably current code book but it is not manditory. It is up to you since no laws say you must buy a code.
Go on line for bits and pieces (and spend a lot more valuable time) or just keep current - it is up to you.
Only the unemployed go to look for free tools to make a living.
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416 Posts
Is it possible to copy and paste it into a word document and then print that? NOT being a smartass just asking.
If not then I think that's BS that smaller companies would need to tack one more "extra charge" into their expenses. GOD KNOWS that government insitutions like raping you but they should include at least one of the two(comercial or residential depending on your preference) with your package AT NO EXTRA CHARGE when you GC's pass your test and then the updates when you renew!
IMHO
I found the NJ version of IRC2006 and IBC2006 in PDF but it is "read only" and will not copy paste.
We all have expenses as a business why would code books be any different, it is a tool that you need and will save you time, i.e. a failed inspection will set us back at least a few days and then the labor and material to resolve it. There is a copy of IRC and IBC in both trucks at all times. Furthermore I took the classes at county college to become an inspector. At the time it was more for the interpretation of the new code to avoid red stickers, now it could be an option for a job.
Heck yeah! I've been unemployed for the last 25 years or so, and I'll take free tools any day. :thumbsup:
Obviously we need to stay up with the codes, and the best way to do that is to have a copy in printed and/or digital form. But I'm with a bunch of other guys who think that such government-mandated materials should be available at cost, not with exorbitant middleman markups. That's the part that rankles.
As pointed out, the code is a tool.....if you want to view it that way, and remember how to consider the cost of doing it and doing it again if you "guess" wrong.
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17,545 Posts
I'm all for free. But it's not 'free' if your tax dollars are paying for it. The building dept is paid for by your tax dollars.
So what you are proposing wouldn't be free either.
I like the system as it is cause I don't believe there is any government entity that will do things cheaper than a private one, so I figure if a code book costs me $80.00 and a private company is producing it, if I had to have the government do it and sell it to me, that book would probably cost $160.00 and if they were giving them away and tax dollars were paying for it, that book would probably cost me $1000!
So what you are proposing wouldn't be free either.
I like the system as it is cause I don't believe there is any government entity that will do things cheaper than a private one, so I figure if a code book costs me $80.00 and a private company is producing it, if I had to have the government do it and sell it to me, that book would probably cost $160.00 and if they were giving them away and tax dollars were paying for it, that book would probably cost me $1000!
The info should be free. simple. We should be able to download ALL code information free of charge.
Books cost money to make, not $400 though. So a book should be relatively cheap.
what organization is profiting from the books anyway?
This is a public safety/service issue. Not a private/profit issue. (at least it shouldn't be.)
Books cost money to make, not $400 though. So a book should be relatively cheap.
what organization is profiting from the books anyway?
This is a public safety/service issue. Not a private/profit issue. (at least it shouldn't be.)
WELL...WITH ALL DUE RESPECT...I think the premise of the original post as well as mine was meant to say "it would be nice if".
What does "Only the unemployed go to look for free tools to make a living." Have to do with it? Does that mean that EVERY time some one looks for a tool or material sale they are cheapin' out and or un-employed or are they just being frugile? Cutting costs in ANY economy let alone this one is just practicle business sense.
"When considering your business, the costs include, your truck and operation costs (payments, fuel,insurance, accountants, tax preparers, etc.). A bad installation not complying with the codes (which you should know) can wipe out everything you invested. You should have a reasonably current code book but it is not manditory. It is up to you since no laws say you must buy a code."
YES A THOUSAND PERCENT CORRECT!:thumbsup: but ALL businesses should be looking to keep costs down(unless they know they're getting a bailout
) asking for a break here and there if possible ISN'T an indication of being un employed or a low life! Of course if Donald Trump is un employed then I'M ALL IN!!!:clap:
:laughing::laughing::laughing:
/\ who pays for pron?
My NEC 2008 book and all the damn Holt books were serious money! My commercial wiring book was nearly as expensive as the NEC book!! Gotta love book companies that put out books and the damn things fall apart the first time going through them (my electromechanical systems book!!! paperback and @ $135.00!! )
My NEC 2008 book and all the damn Holt books were serious money! My commercial wiring book was nearly as expensive as the NEC book!! Gotta love book companies that put out books and the damn things fall apart the first time going through them (my electromechanical systems book!!! paperback and @ $135.00!!
)
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4,536 Posts
/\ who pays for pron?
My NEC 2008 book and all the damn Holt books were serious money! My commercial wiring book was nearly as expensive as the NEC book!! Gotta love book companies that put out books and the damn things fall apart the first time going through them (my electromechanical systems book!!! paperback and @ $135.00!!
You will get your moneys worth from the Mike Holt books. I guarantee it. I have at least 6 of the Mike Holt books and each one of them has helped me become a better electrician. You may want to consider Tom Henry's Calculations book because that'll come in handy to understanding load calculations, box fill, motor loads and motor feeders. Good luck ditching the paint and coming over the electrical end of things. :thumbsup:
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