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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a contract to frame a school building. I ordered a large quantity of lumber from someone that I don't do business with often. The owner of the company I'm working for has a history with a high level employee at the yard we bought the lumber from but not with the owner. We've had several large headers 8x8 or larger check to the point that they have deep continuous cracks the length of the 8ft headers. The larger issue is that I have a lot of interior walls we have already framed which are twisting and warping to the point we need to replace a large percentage of the studs in them. These walls were blocked and framed a week ago. Dry wall cant be placed on the walls now without fixing this. There are several other trades that are going to do work before the sheet rock guys get there anyways. I can't go back and fix half the studs 3 months from now when the other trades are done and the sheet rock is ready to go up. I know lumber twists and cups etc as it dries and that it comes with framing with green lumber. I have never seen it happen to this degree and this quickly though. Does anyone have any idea why this lumber is warping so much worse than usual? Did the mill do something wrong. I know the yard isn't going to be happy about crediting us for this. The lumber didn't look like that when it arrived and due to the large drop in lumber prices in the last few months crediting us what we paid will be extremely expensive to the lumber yard. Anybody have any ideas how to get this payed for or why the situation is so much worse than usual? Its hot and dry around here but it always is and plenty of stuff gets framed in the summer without these issues.

Thanks in advance for any insight or advice.

Best
 

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I have a contract to frame a school building ...The owner of the company I'm working for... Anybody have any ideas how to get this payed for
What is your job/position in the company? If you are an employee, why/how is this your problem and not the owner's?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What is your job/position in the company? If you are an employee, why/how is this your problem and not the owner's?
I estimated the job and now I am managing the project. So I guess I'm an Estimator/Project Manager.
 

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Why did you frame with green lumber. I believe most of the framers in our area have gone to kd. Mainly because of the issues you are having.

We don't do anything with green, unless we can't get anything else. Especially studs. And in what is probablybprevailing wage work.

I bet the cost savings for green isn't going to make up for the rework.

Save a dime, spend a dollar.

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Why did you frame with green lumber. I believe most of the framers in our area have gone to kd. Mainly because of the issues you are having.

We don't do anything with green, unless we can't get anything else. Especially studs. And in what is probablybprevailing wage work.

I bet the cost savings for green isn't going to make up for the rework.

Save a dime, spend a dollar.

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The specs called for green and it was a competitive bid. That being said if I had it to do over again I would have gone with kiln dried anyways. However like I said I haven't seen anything twist this badly or quickly before and I've seen a lot of buildings framed.
 

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So, you are not the framer? 3 months is a long time for any framing to sit. Humidity & quality of how the lumber was dried are factors as well. Sounds like your boss got the buddy deal & the lumber was greener on the other side


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
So, you are not the framer? 3 months is a long time for any framing to sit. Humidity & quality of how the lumber was dried are factors as well. Sounds like your boss got the buddy deal & the lumber was greener on the other side


Mike
The company I work for is framing it but I am not the foreman. The foreman is getting pretty frustrated reframing things. I ordered the lumber and the yard ordered it from the mill (quantities were larger than what they'd stock). This lumber was NOT a deal but it was ordered when the prices where still climbing and we needed to lock in a price in case lumber kept climbing.
 

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I estimated the job and now I am managing the project. So I guess I'm an Estimator/Project Manager.
Ok, so you recommend to the owner that he backcharge the yard for all rework and new material necessary. And let the owner decide what he wants to do.
But first, review the contract terms and make sure it didn't include language advising you that the lumber is likely to warp. If it does include such language, then you advise the owner that he's screwed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You won’t be framing a school here with wood, I thought that was all over the country.
Where's here? I'm in California which has significant fire and earthquake issues but we still build wood schools. Admittedly they are far outnumbered by steel and concrete schools and they have an obscene amount of simpson hardware in them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, so you recommend to the owner that he backcharge the yard for all rework and new material necessary. And let the owner decide what he wants to do.
But first, review the contract terms and make sure it didn't include language advising you that the lumber is likely to warp. If it does include such language, then you advise the owner that he's screwed.
Thank you for the constructive reply.
That's pretty much where we are. Unfortunately the cost of the lumber is going to factor in. It will be more expensive than usual for them to make it right. I guess I was sort of wondering if the there was any way the yard could get credit from the mill. I'm not sure if the mill did anything wrong but this lumber is not behaving normally.
 

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NJ, could be the reason every school built cost more than $25 million
All concrete with very little steel framing
 

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Yeah. Who specifically specs green lumber.

That's like specing high VOC paint.

I don't think we can use green for studs in many applications here. But not sure.

Too much mold and mildew is one reason to not use it. Especially in a school building.

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I can't imagine ordering green lumber for FRAMING (outside of getting green lumber from an Amish mill for framing a barn). we've only ever used green lumber for ceder siding or fencing. Since this was a school, what do the architectural prints spec? If it was a cost-saving measure when lumber prices skyrocketed it was a BAD decision, would have been better switching to metal studs.
 

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I'm also a bit puzzled about the "8x8 or larger 8ft headers" that are cracking. I have never seen such a header on any print unless it was a timber frame building. Who specified that and why?
 

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Some amazingly short sighted decisions. Is this in the US? What inspector would approve it? Is there a grade stamp? Is the school board aware of the liability of future mold in the school walls? What’s the current moisture content?


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Goin' Down in Flames....
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I’m in far Northern California, heart of timber country.

There is no KD lumber here. None, zilch. Not even a thing. Maybe pine for shelving.

All framing lumber is green. Hit the stud with a hammer and you’ll get sprayed with water. 👍

All the framing lumber in the yards was probably cut with in the month.

Even if KD was available, I wouldn’t use it. $)(t is nasty, warped, cracked, split, and has half the strength of standard.

8x8 is an odd size for a header.

Some mills put out top notch lumber. Some churn out garbage. Depends on the trees . Some put out both.

I once, and only once, bought some lumber from Home Depot. I just used it for forms, and it sucked even for that. Nasty warped split garbage that I ended up setting on fire.

Came from the same mill in southern Oregon that all my lumber comes from

I guess the garbage gets sent to HD, and the good stuff goes the local yards.
 
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