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The Duke
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This was in our news recently last week. 6 People on a deck, injuries, but thankfully no deaths.

What do you see or not see in the picture?

I see the ledger intact to the fallen deck, so my assumption is no bolts to rim board.

Photo from WMTW TV8


 

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The Duke
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
From the initial story. This is typical here in Maine. No one pulls permits unless it's a new home or major remodel. And the focus on code enforcement is nil. But rightfully so, the landlord/owner should expect a lawsuit or two.

Officials have said the balcony appeared to have been recently constructed, but the landlord, name removed, did not obtain a building permit. The town code enforcement officer told the newspaper that "the deck had faulty construction and was improperly anchored to the building."
 

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Sean
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That was an apartment building & the deck was 13' in the air? They have already decided that no criminal charges will be filed even though a structrual engineer hasn't looked at it yet? Interesting

It is hard to tell off those pictures but it looks like half the ledger is still attached to the building - so if they did lag it, they missed some. I would personally go with they were using 4x4's posts, improperly attached to a beam that rolled. The beam doesn't appear to have been secured to the deck properly either and I don't see any cross bracing used.
 

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This was in our news recently last week. 6 People on a deck, injuries, but thankfully no deaths.

What do you see or not see in the picture?

I see the ledger intact to the fallen deck, so my assumption is no bolts to rim board.

Photo from WMTW TV8
I see a house that is old enough to be balloon framed and doesn't have a rim joist...:thumbsup:...bolted into 3/4" T&G...:eek:

A little Viagra should fix it right up...:whistling
 

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On new construction decks I’ve always run the deck joists over the wall for bearing and next to a stud or joist to secure too, never butt and hung from lagged ledgers. And for add-on decks that are attached to existing structures above the slab I’ve posted the ledger beams off concrete footings. The lags I did use were mostly to help keep the deck against the building, not hold it up too. I have yet to see one built like that fail.
 

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Zimmermann
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I don't really know why it is so hard to lag or ledgerlok the ledger boards and actually hit something with the lags? It is only common sense.
So true. The ledgerlocks especially have made attaching the deck securely to the house REALLY quick and easy...
 

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On new construction decks I’ve always run the deck joists over the wall for bearing and next to a stud or joist to secure too, never butt and hung from lagged ledgers. And for add-on decks that are attached to existing structures above the slab I’ve posted the ledger beams off concrete footings. The lags I did use were mostly to help keep the deck against the building, not hold it up too. I have yet to see one built like that fail.
And sometimes adding a beam at the house is not only impractical but ugly as well.

Attaching it properly to a properly built home will work just fine. I often find then when someone does not understand something they over kill it just to cover their lack of knowledge.
 

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Just watched the video on channel 8's website.
There were six people on the deck when it collapsed,All six were injured, two young girls are in ICU at Maine Medical with serious head injuries.

Contractor who was at the scene of the collapse said that the rim was nailed and not lagged(nailed with what I can only imagine). The deck came straight down (posts?) and then flipped back against the house.
The video says that Code enforcement is investigating. I didn't see any mention of no criminal charges being filed, I think it's probably too early for that, until they investigate. Though I believe whoever built that deck Contractor/ HO/ Hack are directly responsible for those peoples injuries, and should pay the price for thier negligence.

I can't imagine being responsible for someones death/injuries because you didn't spend an extra few minutes putting in a few lags, or bracing your posts properly.
 

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Wow. Even 3" deck screws would have prevented that from happening. Some people are so lazy it's criminal.
Steve

Just watched the video on channel 8's website.
There were six people on the deck when it collapsed,All six were injured, two young girls are in ICU at Maine Medical with serious head injuries.

Contractor who was at the scene of the collapse said that the rim was nailed and not lagged(nailed with what I can only imagine). The deck came straight down (posts?) and then flipped back against the house.
The video says that Code enforcement is investigating. I didn't see any mention of no criminal charges being filed, I think it's probably too early for that, until they investigate. Though I believe whoever built that deck Contractor/ HO/ Hack are directly responsible for those peoples injuries, and should pay the price for thier negligence.

I can't imagine being responsible for someones death/injuries because you didn't spend an extra few minutes putting in a few lags, or bracing your posts properly.
 

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If you think that 3" deck screws will prevent that from happening, you use a lot stronger screws then I use. They shear so easily. They may be worse then nails.
Very true Mark. The one bigtime deck failure here in Austin was only nailed to the wall with a few nails. Permitted job, no one ever called for an inspection. After the city paid for a 2M lawsuit they toughened permit rules/inspections a bunch.

Funny how cities/towns will let things slide, til they have to pay.
 

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On new construction decks I’ve always run the deck joists over the wall for bearing and next to a stud or joist to secure too, never butt and hung from lagged ledgers.
My preference on new construction (and old) is heavy-duty hold-downs and all thread every 20'. That way your house envelope is intact save for a couple of 5/8" holes which can be caulked/flashed etc.
Your method, although strong, introduces multiple 2x8/2x10-sized penetrations which is harder to get completely flashed/sealed.

If you think that 3" deck screws will prevent that from happening, you use a lot stronger screws then I use. They shear so easily. They may be worse then nails.
Agree 100%. Deck screws are ok for temp supporting the ledger as you install it, never for perm. structural support. Whereas in this collapse, the nails pulled out causing the ledger failure, deck screws would simply shear - end result is the same...little girls w/ massive head injuries.

Building decks really isn't rocket science - a little research, a little education and bam, you have the knowledge to build a rock-solid structure that no one gets hurt on.

Mac
 

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Deck Failure

We install second story decks with two support beams into concrete footings. The first is usually sixteen inches out from the face of the house and the second is two thirds out from the house depending on with. We also use steel poles.

The inspector has never complained about our work ever, is it over kill maybe, but I sleep good at night and if there is a party at the house with an overload of people it will hold up to the load.

We also install threaded lag bolts into the houses band joist with silicone to prevent water damage.

Its the lag bolts screwed into the band joist that cause failure due to moisture entering into the band joist causing rot and future failure.

On lower level decks we still use double support joists and do not lag into the home. The home maintains its water proof status by not being penetrated into

We explain it to the clients and have never had any complaints about the construction process.

We had one client with as they explained it were are all heavies, so we put up three support beams on a twenty foot by forty foot deck with built in benches.

Haven't been by the house in years and when I go by it I see the new owners have put cars on top of it to work on.

They like not having to leave the cars on the ground, I saw plywood on the decking so their creepers wheels would not get stuck .
 

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Yea, I know that lags are the right way to go, but I didn't know that the deck screws would shear that easily.:shutup: Thanks for the info.
Steve

If you think that 3" deck screws will prevent that from happening, you use a lot stronger screws then I use. They shear so easily. They may be worse then nails.
 

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KemoSabe
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The last few years that I was framing in Ocean City, they required all ledgers to be through bolted with either hex bolts or carriage bolts, 1/2" diameter staggered 2' on center. It's a bit of a PITA, but we started holding the last joist 16" from the outside rim to allow easy access for installation.:thumbsup:
 
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