Load Transfer from Porch Columns

14279 Views 78 Replies 20 Participants Last post by EricBrancard, May 6, 2014

TBFGhost

Discussion Starter · May 3, 2014 (Edited)

2

One of my long time clients asked me to come take a look at a porch they want installed. They had a set of plans drawn up...my question is where is the load going from the columns? They appear to just be sitting on the deck surface? Doesn't this present a problem? I also noticed no uplift protection speced out.

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TBFGhost

Discussion Starter · #41 · May 3, 2014

No. This guy is a result of Google search with phone calls to four local architects. He charged 1200 for these "plans"

hdavis

· #42 · May 3, 2014

For starters, those plans should have sections indicated, with pages of section details that show all the questions you're bringing up. Maybe they are there somewhere, but from what you say, they aren't. I've never seen a set of plans without all structural connectors call out - hangers, bases, ...

Going from a 4X4 structural member to a 5X5 or 6X6 still has to be called out - if I substitute 6X6 for 4X4 posts or columns, that's a structural design change. If he's responsible for the structural design, he better call it out.

Find an alternative to using this guy - he's going to be nothing but a billing nightmare for the HO and you.

TBFGhost

Discussion Starter · #43 · May 3, 2014

hdavis said:
For starters, those plans should have sections indicated, with pages of section details that show all the questions you're bringing up. Maybe they are there somewhere, but from what you say, they aren't. I've never seen a set of plans without all structural connectors call out - hangers, bases, ...

Going from a 4X4 structural member to a 5X5 or 6X6 still has to be called out - if I substitute 6X6 for 4X4 posts or columns, that's a structural design change. If he's responsible for the structural design, he better call it out.

Find an alternative to using this guy - he's going to be nothing but a billing nightmare for the HO and you.

What you see is what I got for the extent of structure details. He won't even tell me if I should be using 4x4 or 6x6. His email says the homeowner needs to make that call.

hdavis

· #44 · May 3, 2014

TBFGhost said:
What you see is what I got for the extent of structure details. He won't even tell me if I should be using 4x4 or 6x6. His email says the homeowner needs to make that call.

Double ouch!

Size makes a big architectural difference in the look, as you know.

Unbelievable; good luck!

TBFGhost

Discussion Starter · #45 · May 3, 2014 (Edited)

2

Well, I feel a little better, the archi sent an e-mail to our client saying "Tom has an attitude problem" and forwarded our e-mail messages. Fortually my clients know me better then that and as soon as her husband gets home we are going to talk about this.

As of now I am waiting to hear back from the Archi...

Frank,
Attached you will find a simple drawing showing how I intend to build the blocking and support the roof loads. Please let me know if this was your intent. This is a structural detail that, as the architect, I need your approval on.

Also, there aren't any details on the roof framing beside the use of 2x6 rafters and 2x8 hips/ridge. I am assuming the rest is left up to us to figure out to ensure we miss the windows?

Obviously i should put a few more blocks in to catch the decking but this about the best option I can come up with the preserve his plans. I do not want to just sit them on the decking...maybe it just personal preference but I would like to see the posts drop at least to the joints/box.

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Tom M

· #46 · May 3, 2014

Well I rarely see a set of plans with hardware called out & it's aggravating because it's $1000 worth of crap some times that another builder may not add.

If I were going to build on the deck I would add the blocking like you did or he did but I don't like it. I look to get my posts on the piers so I don't have an inch of settling after shrinkage. You may be the builder but he is "the design professional " who is responsible for the plans.

EricBrancard

· #47 · May 3, 2014

Tom M said:
If I were going to build on the deck I would add the blocking like you did or he did but I don't like it. I look to get my posts on the piers so I don't have an inch of settling after shrinkage.

Another reason I like techno posts. They have a few inches of adjustment in them.

Reactions: 2

jaydee

· #48 · May 3, 2014

Have you spoken with the Homeowner?

I would let them know the issues you have with the plans.

Take the time to show the problems. Let them know your
not comfortable with the plan & archy.

I would at the very least have them have the plans verified by a third
party.

I would stay away from those plans w/o a re-draw.

I'm not getting started on this architect want-a-be

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Tom M

· #49 · May 3, 2014

EricBrancard said:
Another reason I like techno posts. They have a few inches of adjustment in them.

I haven't used them yet but hope to in the right applicatio .
For this
I wouldn't want to have to adjust or expect the owner to be diligent enough for that. I also don't want to worry about underskirting and animals. My point was dimensional girder will shrink then the joist on it will too, plus the upper support.

Dan_Watson

· #50 · May 3, 2014

EricBrancard said:
Another reason I like techno posts. They have a few inches of adjustment in them.

I hear they are available in New Jersey too...

Just switch to all metal. We are framing our next two decks with metal and posts.

TBFGhost

Discussion Starter · #51 · May 3, 2014

jaydee said:
Have you spoken with the Homeowner?

I would let them know the issues you have with the plans.

Take the time to show the problems. Let them know your
not comfortable with the plan & archy.

I would at the very least have them have the plans verified by a third
party.

I would stay away from those plans w/o a re-draw.

I'm not getting started on this architect want-a-be

Yeah, I just got back from meeting with the husband. They think the guys is a huge SOB. They are rather fond of me and my work so I had a leg up to start.

Anyway, they told me what they want to do. There is an existing deck on the back of the home, not as long but deeper. They are going to have the archi re-draw the plans so they can reuse the two girders ( IIRC this is what the archi was supposed to do from the start) and two piers that are there. With that they will submit the plans for review. If the footings are a no go, it will go back to the SOB for a redraw and the husband will dig the new piers as required (landscape contractor, bob-cat with auger). He just wants me to layout and install said piers.

Being a landscape contractor, he says he runs across plans and even he finds these plans a little lacking.

Once we have approved plans by the town, they told me I can add whatever I think I need that is above and beyond what this ass hat says, which boils down to some more metal hardware and up sizing the rafters/hips/ridge from 2x6 to 2x8. (altho for all I know the town is going to ask for such items)

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EricBrancard

· #52 · May 3, 2014

Dan_Watson said:
I hear they are available in New Jersey too...

Just switch to all metal. We are framing our next two decks with metal and posts.

Thinking about it. Waiting to try it out on my own place first.

jaydee

· #53 · May 3, 2014

I'm glad they're on your side.

I lost a really good job this spring because I questioned the architects
drawings. Turned out that they liked the architect more than my Bid.

If that rear deck will get a roof I believe you'll need bigfoot footings
or those spiral post things . if you know anybody that does them.

At least around here they're required.

Good luck, stay busy

griz

· #54 · May 3, 2014

Dan_Watson said:
I hear they are available in New Jersey too...

Just switch to all metal. We are framing our next two decks with metal and posts.

jaydee said:
...or those spiral post things . if you know anybody that does them...
Good luck, stay busy

Hey Dan, maybe you should name your company ....:whistling

The SPIRAL POST THINGS GUY...:thumbup:

Reactions: 1

Dan_Watson

· #55 · May 3, 2014 (Edited)

griz said:
Hey Dan, maybe you should name your company ....:whistling

The SPIRAL POST THINGS GUY...:thumbup:

I bet people would understand better. No one knows what helical posts are ain south jersey.

jaydee

· #56 · May 4, 2014

The SPIRAL POST THINGS GUY...:thumbup:[/QUOTE]

I knew Dan would like that....

I started using techno-post last year. I like them a lot.

I even thought about being a " big drill bit looking thing installer"

Reactions: 1

rrk

· #57 · May 4, 2014

Now the architect will charge $2500 for the revisions

TBFGhost

Discussion Starter · #58 · May 4, 2014

rrk said:
Now the architect will charge $2500 for the revisions

I hope not. My client is not someone you want mad at you....this architect is on a slippery slope.

griz

· #59 · May 4, 2014

TBFGhost said:
I hope not. My client is not someone you want mad at you....this architect is on a slippery slope.

Give him a nudge....:whistling:laughing:

Reactions: 2

ScipioAfricanus

· #60 · May 4, 2014

I think the BCO series is completely the wrong choice for this application.
The lateral loads are around 830 lbs which might be correct but that is only in one direction, the direction parallel to the upward flanges. They are not rated for the other direction as far as I can see.
I think the posts are used as newels for railing also? Maybe not.
Anyway, I would suggest (if it where my deck) penetrating the deck with the posts and land them on the beam. Then blocking in both directions and 1/2" lags top and bottom to really lock them in place both directions.
that will be O.K. for the one set of posts but the others not in line with the beam should have their own footings that they bear on.

Andy.

Reactions: 1

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