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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well today I was called out by a customer to look at his phone extensions on his system. This has a level of evolution since the original install. I did not do the install.

Once I figured out the NON labeled wiring I determined that the two extensions that were down were wired through a surge protector.

Such as KSU ----- Surge ----- Extension phone.

To make things more confusing this was converted from Verizon Landline service to Comcast VOIP.

How does the surge protector take a hit that blows it out so it will save or give of itself to protect the downstream equipment when the Upstream is the KSU And it was NOT damaged?? :eek: I jumpered the surge protection and all worked Ok. :clap:

Does anyone have an opinion on how necessary surge protection before equipment that is downstream of the Comcast modem??

It is not Alexanders world anymore. :no:

Thanks for the input all.

Les
 

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Do you have any evidence that the protector actually protected against a surge or did it just die?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The unit has been installed for a number of years and many more storms. The storm last night was the "coup d' gra".

Other than the results of what I described that is all the evidence I got.

May not be what you are asking but I got little more to go on.

Les
 

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I've never seen a surge before, yet I've had lighting damage occur a dozen times. Lightning isn't stopped by surge protectors, your only protection is good bonding and insurance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
To be more clear this was SurgeGate MLLT1 by ITW I think.

To be honest I don't believe the unit is designed for this particular application. I am still mystified how it will blow out and all else is good.

Les
 

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It's a cheap electronic device, they die, it happens. Take it apart and see what happened inside.
 

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Lightning is the 500 pound gorilla--it does what it wants to, without consulting you for logic.

But I agree with Inner, if you're really consumed with the itch to know, tear the thing apart. Could be a minor component failed just due to old age, cosmic rays or bad juju.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I will do that maybe next week.

What is your opinion on having any protection between the KSU and the Extension phone at all??

Personally I can't see the point.

And then having protection after a Comcast modem??

Les
 

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Pointless, phone and cable surge protectors are complete sh!t and cause noting but trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok so yesterday I removed the SurgeGate and opened. Looked fresh and new inside. No arcs, sparks or charcoal.

After looking it thoroughly at all devices on board all looked normal. Aparently something internal to a device on the board was damaged but did not blow out of it's case.

It is my humble opinion that both path ways for L1 and L2 could not have shorted at the same time due to a AGE issue.

The only conclusion would be that each was subjected to a high surge or spike that took them out at the same moment in time.

Again I find it very odd that a protector placed between the KSU and Extension phone would short out and neither the KSU or Phone were damaged.

Ground wire is I believe is a #6 stranded copper that I think is connected to building steel. (not sure exactly where but will investigate)

Only other thing to be damaged is L2 of the Comcast Modem which is dead at the Modem.

Still a puzzlement??

Les
 

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Capra Aegagrus
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After looking it thoroughly at all devices on board all looked normal. Aparently something internal to a device on the board was damaged but did not blow out of it's case.
Les, you know full well that components can be deader than... a really dead thing while looking fine on the outside. You'd have to actually test each one to be sure of its condition.

Especially these days, the practical thing is to replace the entire unit (or eliminate it) rather than satisfying a component-level "need to know". I do empathize, though. I did component-level repair for many years, and still have to fight the urge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Les, you know full well that components can be deader than... a really dead thing while looking fine on the outside. You'd have to actually test each one to be sure of its condition.

Especially these days, the practical thing is to replace the entire unit (or eliminate it) rather than satisfying a component-level "need to know". I do empathize, though. I did component-level repair for many years, and still have to fight the urge.

Tin,

Oh yes I am fighting the urge but, I know it will be wasted time I do not have. I am just trying to instill some readers to throw caution to the wind and at the very least offer up some reasonable theories that make some sense. I am doing my best to trying and see logic in what happened.

This one seems at this point to defy logic.

Les
 

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Tin,

Oh yes I am fighting the urge but, I know it will be wasted time I do not have. I am just trying to instill some readers to throw caution to the wind and at the very least offer up some reasonable theories that make some sense. I am doing my best to trying and see logic in what happened.

This one seems at this point to defy logic.

Les
I don't understand.

Your setup is:

Comcast Voip Box --- KSU --- Surge Protector --- Extensions

Why the heck is there a POTS surge protector between a KSU and an extension?

Line 2 doesn't work on the Comcast and inputs 1&2 on the surge are fried. Was the surge protector located between two separate extensions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I don't understand.

Your setup is:

Comcast Voip Box --- KSU --- Surge Protector --- Extensions

Why the heck is there a POTS surge protector between a KSU and an extension?

Line 2 doesn't work on the Comcast and inputs 1&2 on the surge are fried. Was the surge protector located between two separate extensions?

Inner, I am finally glad you read my post. YES, it was as I and now YOU have described. I totally agree that the protector was it totally the wrong spot. What has be baffled is how it could have gotten whacked in that location and the KSU and Ext Phones are working fine after I jumped out the protector??

The protector was on Ext Ports 5 and 6 for what that is worth.

It is a puzzlement that defies logic. I am not looking to change the world of electronic surge and spike protection with a new design. I am merely trying to get my head up the ass of an electron to see where it goes in order to cause this to happen.

With little more than my forensic analysis to go on some theories can be stabbed at. The primary one being that the BAD :censored: electron traveled through the coax and zapped the Comcast Modem L2, then it continued another 40 feet to the 66 block at the KSU, where it then went thru the KSU to Ext 5 and 6 ports were it was stopped 8 inches later by the Protector, by shorting out a component to Ground on a #6 copper ground cable rendering the Extension Phones #5 & 6 useless and NOT damaging any other electronic device. :eek:

I realize that when the day is done and the final curtain is drawn on the topic nothing will have changed and we will all go about our daily stuff. It is just that my brain has run out of theories and was looking for a few more from you and other readers here.

Mr. Spock and Data where are you??

Les
 

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Phone line surge protectors have an electronically resetting fuse that is rated for X voltage. A KSU provides it's own power to the phones and for all I know it may be beyond the threshold of a POTS line.

Still correlation does not equal causality, one defunked surge protector and one bad line on a comcast box arn't enough for me to call out the forensics team.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Phone line surge protectors have an electronically resetting fuse that is rated for X voltage. A KSU provides it's own power to the phones and for all I know it may be beyond the threshold of a POTS line.

Still correlation does not equal causality, one defunked surge protector and one bad line on a comcast box arn't enough for me to call out the forensics team.
Inner, I would not want you to leave the beautiful province of Ontario with your team. Nice to have your input.

If no other reader chimes in with a theory I will put this to rest here. I will ponder for another couple of days until the next interesting puzzlement happens and then think about it and lose interest in this one.

Again thanks!!

Les
 

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Inner, I would not want you to leave the beautiful province of Ontario with your team. Nice to have your input.

If no other reader chimes in with a theory I will put this to rest here. I will ponder for another couple of days until the next interesting puzzlement happens and then think about it and lose interest in this one.

Again thanks!!

Les
LoL

Still a surge protector on an extension, new one on me!
 
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