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Liability for a damaged couch- What is realistic?

10K views 101 replies 25 participants last post by  griz 
#1 ·
Hey all I'm new here to the forums.

Looking for an opinion here.

While working in a clients home, one of my guys spilled a quart of black oil based paint. When the paint splattered one drop landed on the clients 3 year old tan colored couch that was across the room. We attempted to clean by dabbing with thinner and a shop vac. As you can expect the result was not good. I admitted the issue to the owner and accepted full responsibility. I also told them that I would resolve the situation to their satisfaction. As stated the couch was 3 years old and had some staining from pets and food already.

They produced a receipt for $1500 for the couch and matching love seat. They have also stated that replacement costs are $2600 as they bought the original set as a floor model and received a good deal. They feel that I cannot just have the one couch recovered as it will not match the original dye lot and therefore the matching loveseat.

After some negotiations (they started at the replacement cost of $2600) they have offered that I pay them the original cash value of the couch and love seat ($1500). I can have the stained couch but they want to keep the love seat for their son.

Do you feel this is a fair deal? I don't. I feel that I owe them only what they paid for the couch (again it's 3 years old and not in new condition when damaged). I also feel that I should take possession of the material that I paid them for.
 
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#2 ·
First off I'd contact a professional to see if they could clean it off. Now I don't know the first damn thing about cleaning oil paint off a chesterfield, but I do know a dry cleaner that managed to get blood out of a white shirt that I though was ruined...so I'd call around and see what a pro could do. Start with the place they bought it.

If that didn't pan out I'd look at it like insurance, you have to give them replacement cost or buy them a new couch, and in doing so you take possession of the old one.

The fact it has other stains on it isn't relevant, you are responsible for a crap piece of furniture as much as an expensive one.
 
#14 ·
agreed with you till that in red..it absolutely does matter.if insurance handled it.,it would be a significant factor.
age and condition and amount of damage are absolutely pertinent here.

they don't get a new couch for a spot..be realistic man.

if your fender was dented and i bumped into you and caused another dent, I pay for the new bumper?

you best do some more research on that.

this guy already hung himself..must be a newbie.

tell them to flip the cushion..more experience in the field and you would have flipped it before they saw it;)

HO is playing the game with whole dye matching lot etc..

grow a pair OP..accept the minor portion you are responsible for.no judge will give them a new couch.

not one
 
#3 ·
try calling carpet or upholstery cleaning company.

In my opinion you do have to make this right. But, for $1500, they're total cost new for both. If you give them $1500 you get both. Offer them an amount that will make them happy. Only after the spot can't be cleaned. Can the cushion be flipped over ?
Make it right. But don't get screw over a drop of paint.
 
#9 ·
Inner10 said:
First off I'd contact a professional to see if they could clean it off. Now I don't know the first damn thing about cleaning oil paint off a chesterfield, but I do know a dry cleaner that managed to get blood out of a white shirt that I though was ruined...so I'd call around and see what a pro could do. Start with the place they bought it. If that didn't pan out I'd look at it like insurance, you have to give them replacement cost or buy them a new couch, and in doing so you take possession of the old one. The fact it has other stains on it isn't relevant, you are responsible for a crap piece of furniture as much as an expensive one.
Insurance doesn't always replace with new, they will give the depreciated value of things. They do it all the time with vehicles. If I wreck my car that's 10 years old they don't buy me a new car they give me fair market value for a ten year old car in the same condition before it was wrecked. It's insurance 101!
 
#10 ·
In order to only pay the depreciated value of the couch you would first have to find the legal life span of a couch. This could prove difficult. However you could call furniture shops and see if they have any data that tells how long a couch should last or what is the average time a person owns a couch before they buy a new one.
 
#68 ·
Mike, this guy is being unreasonable and he is trying to hang the whole living room set on him.

I was in the same situation when I was just starting out... It was a coffee table...as I was walking by carrying medicine cabinet, the ruller slipped off my pocked and nicked the table... Easy repair. The Homeowner went nuts and tried to pull the same s^*t, saying this table is antique and its worth a grand.
I offered the guy to keep the balance off this job, it was a few hundred dollars just to get him off my back- he didn't want to hear it, and was asking 700 or 800 hundred... I told him keep the 200 if not, do what you have to do and stop calling me.
So he took me to small claims court asking over 1k and to my surprise after everything that was said, the Judge said" if this was a valuable antique table, you should have moved it out of the way knowing you will have remodeling work going on in your house" he awarded him $50 and court cost which was $20 some dollar. I almost burst out laughing when I heard that. When we walked out outside, I told the guy when can I stop by to get the $100 you still owe me... I thought he will have a heart attack, but I let the balance slide, because I felt bad for the poor bastard.:laughing:
 
#13 ·
All the above info is pretty much spot on...

Now, you have to evaluate how much time you will fiddle fart around with this vs how much time are willing to put in vs paying the $1500 and being done with it.

Even if you, clean or reupholster there is a chance they will not be happy, then what??????

They want $1500 and won't be happy until they get it.

Opening a can of paint in a finished & furnished room?....:censored:

Were you on site when the accident happened?

Good Luck...:thumbsup:
 
#16 ·
without being conflictive and remaining accommodating and professional simply remind them you will pay for repairs, you ill not replace 2 items due minor damage to 1 and you will not offer brand new due a spot.

they are just looking to flip the cushion and move on and take 1500 off your job.

don't be a sucker ever. Being a good business man is not synonymous with being a patsy.

surely the liner can be replaced or cleaned.

Make sure you demonstrate their less than perfect condition.

and offer in the cleaning that the tech will correct those issues as well.
some of these material /upholstery cleaner/repairs do some real magic
 
#17 ·
jamestrd said:
without being conflictive and remaining accommodating and professional simply remind them you will pay for repairs, you ill not replace 2 items due minor damage to 1 and you will not offer brand new due a spot. they are just looking to flip the cushion and move on and take 1500 off your job. don't be a sucker ever. Being a good business man is not synonymous with being a patsy. surely the liner can be replaced or cleaned. Make sure you demonstrate their less than perfect condition. and offer in the cleaning that the tech will correct those issues as well. some of these material /upholstery cleaner/repairs do some real magic
Considering yourself a patsy for paying them and moving on is an emotional reaction, not a decision based on the best interest of your company. We all agree he will have to pay something, if he pays someone to clean it and it doesn't work now he's paying again for another try at something else. How much time and money are you willing to spend to try and not pay the 1500 bucks. It doesn't take long before that 1500 bucks is not looking too bad.
 
#19 ·
that's silly..it really is.



1500 was for floor model( CHEAPSKATES) Looking for a deal despite people farting all over it. and whatever else might exist.

2) it was for 2 pieces. he is not liable for 2 pieces .

sorry

your time and money theory is sorted out with logical and diplomatic approach.

if things got to the point they can not be worked out for a simple mishap spot stain, then court is the only way and they lose..

No judge is giving them a new living room set.

I suspect you may have had many interior issues as a deck guy,
 
#20 ·
jamestrd said:
You're out of your mind let insurance handle it.I love how so many front on here. lose 1500 for an aged damaged couch? Insurance wont do it..why should you. that is NOT good business.. losing money is never good business.it happens..but it is NOT good business
IMO 1500 bucks is small money and I would never make a claim on my policy for that amount. My policy is for the big stuff, like dropping a 2x10 the HO. And yes it's good business to not spend a lot of time to save a small amount of money.
 
#30 ·
Still failing to see reality.

a simple reminder that the ball is in their courtt and do they plan to pay their bill will suffice.
Ask them right to their face. The man with the bigger pair usually prevails.

you will make a reasonable attempt to correct and repair,

they do not get new.

I had an accident the other day.bone headed bump at a light.

woman already had damage to her bumper. we meet roadside.
She tells me the bolt hard form my license plate mount damaged her bumper.I pointed out she has other damage.
"but this is new" her words.

Calls her husband.tells me how her Durango was in shop due another driver.
Now here's what is funny.I tell her whatever she wants to do is fine with me.the damage wont even make my deductible. she in turn asks me what she should do.

I tell her it your car..your decision.No big deal.its small live with it.

she say well this is an Audi.lets call and find out what an Audi bumper costs with her snide attitude as if she was above me.
"this is an audi " she says (yea ok A-4)

I tell her go ahead and waste your time..this an be fixed in a detail shop.

she calls husband delivers drama.:"I was just rear ended"

Me: really" I Bumped you
her" he bumper me and dented the bumper"

Me" ummmm you have a slight impression in your bumper along side if obvious other damage.

point here is she thought she was entitled to a new bumper now.
Her husband told her to leave it and drive of after she called him.

my final retribution was telling her my Tundra cost more than her Audi.. as if i was a Pee on.
its the same thing,

she dont get a new bumper because she bumped
d her already damaged bumper,,it gets fixed.

plain and simple.
 
#21 ·
jamestrd said:
that's silly..it really is. 1500 was for floor model( CHEAPSKATES) Looking for a deal despite people farting all over it. and whatever else might exist. 2) it was for 2 pieces. he is not liable for 2 pieces . sorry your time and money theory is sorted out with logical and diplomatic approach. if things got to the point they can not be worked out for a simple mishap spot stain, then court is the only way and they lose.. No judge is giving them a new living room set. I suspect you may have had many interior issues as a deck guy,
How you feel about the couch and what they are trying to pull is really irrelevant. Going to court to save 1500 bucks is ridiculous. Sometimes you have to put your emotions aside. It would cost me more money for the time I'm not working on another job to go to court then it would to just pay the 1500 bucks.
 
#23 ·
jamestrd said:
that's silly..it really is. 1500 was for floor model( CHEAPSKATES) Looking for a deal despite people farting all over it. and whatever else might exist. 2) it was for 2 pieces. he is not liable for 2 pieces . sorry your time and money theory is sorted out with logical and diplomatic approach. if things got to the point they can not be worked out for a simple mishap spot stain, then court is the only way and they lose.. No judge is giving them a new living room set. I suspect you may have had many interior issues as a deck guy,
They are not asking for a new living room set they are asking for 1500 bucks. I've been in this business for thirty years and decking is not the majority of it. I'm a full service general contractor as well. But WTF has that got to do with anything. The same principles would apply to anything a contractor may damage regardless of whether or not it was indoors or out.
 
#27 ·
read it again..

if you're in the habit of losing money because that what a HO thinks you should do.then you r a fool.

it doesn't save your reputation to put your self on the chopping block..its foolish.

sure pick your battles.but giving a HO 15 because they have minor damage they will NEVER replace is simply stupid.

your reputation is never hurt by 1 customer.stop believing that BS,

unless of course they are they your only?

I agree 1500 aint worth insurance but it sure worth defending.
 
#24 ·
TNTSERVICES said:
I would gauge this situation by how the customer has reacted. They want $2600 for a couch they paid $1500 for three years ago. They are predators and willing to take advantage of an accident. The OP should contact an upholstery cleaner and have them clean it, which is what they should have done in the first place. I don't think a spot of paint warrants a replacement. Reupholster maybe, but not replacement. The OP is also not responsible for replacing the love seat, especially since they want him to pay for it's replacement but want to keep it for their son. They can keep it, but after they buy it back from me. So if they bought the drapes to match the couches as well as the coffee and end tables he has to buy them new ones to match? The problem that the OP faces is they seem like the type of people that no matter how clean the spot gets they think they have the OP over a barrel and will not be satisfied. If the customer does not like the cleaning route, call your insurance company and let them handle it. You are paying them to help you get out of unnecessary expenses and they have a team of lawyers waiting to serve your interests.
Most insurance policies have at least a 500 dollar deductible and if your like me I have something like a 2500 dollar one. I can afford 2500 bucks all day long. So if your deductible is 500 bucks is it worth it to make a claim for 1000 dollars? It isn't to me.
 
#29 ·
Mines $500.

Griz, I wouldn't pay money to an insurance company that would laugh me out of the office. I have called a few times and never had to file a claim, but they gave me some pretty sound advice.
 
#25 ·
WTF...were talking $1500 bucks...

Your insurance company will laugh you out of the office...

or you'll be looking for a new underwriter...

The GC fvcked up.....too bad....

dipstick on the crew needs a can a whoop ass opened on him...:laughing:

the amount of time & money that could be spent trying to shove a resolution down the clients throat is nuts...

Now how about protecting your reputation....

You just paid for a few more credits towards your Phd....
 
#26 ·
I have been through this a long time ago and also do work for a company that does furniture repair work for movers and insurance companies.

Depending on the brand of furniture lifespan can be up to 50 years, upholstered furniture is less. 3 years is not that old, it still may be considered new.They can come up with a brand/model number and the ins co will come up with a median price, then depending on the age it is discounted. If you dont want to file a claim you will be at the mercy of the HO. If you do make a claim your policy is going up.

Built in items are very different, cabinets, countertops,flooring etc
I know someone who had to pay for 40 something yards of vinyl after tearing a 6" cut in the laundry room. The laundry room, kitchen, hall, bathroom all had to be replaced at full value because it was less than 3 years old and their flooring guy said it could not be patched and not noticed
 
#31 ·
TNTSERVICES said:
Mines $500. Griz, I wouldn't pay money to an insurance company that would laugh me out of the office. I have called a few times and never had to file a claim, but they gave me some pretty sound advice.
Let's say the insurance fights it down to 700 bucks now you just made a claim for 200 bucks and that's not something I would want to use my insurance for. I'll bet there's 200 bucks in change in my seat cushions.
 
#41 ·
You'll need to find another $600 in those seats because you would settle for $1500.

I guess I need to further explain. I wouldn't necessarily file a claim but I would contact them. That's what I meant by letting them handle it. My insurance company isn't for just filing claims. They are their to protect me, and advice is a form of protection. I am not a lawyer and don't settle things all day long and they do.
 
#32 ·
jamestrd said:
Still failing to see reality. a simple reminder that the ball is in their courtt and do they plan to pay their bill will suffice. Ask them right to their face. The man with the bigger pair usually prevails. you will make a reasonable attempt to correct and repair, they do not get new. I had an accident the other day.bone headed bump at a light. woman already had damage to her bumper. we meet roadside. She tells me the bolt hard form my license plate mount damaged her bumper.I pointed out she has other damage. "but this is new" her words. Calls her husband.tells me how her Durango was in shop due another driver. Now here's what is funny.I tell her whatever she wants to do is fine with me.the damage wont even make my deductible. she in turn asks me what she should do. I tell her it your car..your decision.No big deal.its small live with it. she say well this is an Audi.lets call and find out what an Audi bumper costs with her snide attitude as if she was above me. "this is an audi " she says (yea ok A-4) I tell her go ahead and waste your time..this an be fixed in a detail shop. she calls husband delivers drama.:"I was just rear ended" Me: really" I Bumped you her" he bumper me and dented the bumper" Me" ummmm you have a slight impression in your bumper along side if obvious other damage. point here is she thought she was entitled to a new bumper now. Her husband told her to leave it and drive of after she called him. my final retribution was telling her my Tundra cost more than her Audi.. as if i was a Pee on. its the same thing, she dont get a new bumper because she bumped d her already damaged bumper,,it gets fixed. plain and simple.
No I just fail to see your intelligence!
 
#34 · (Edited)
griz said:
Wow, guess it depends on the circle of clients you run with....:whistling Insurance companies NEVER fight or defend..... all they do is settle, usually quickly.... Why do you think that is?????...:whistling
So your saying it would be the same principle for me to settle and have it go away? Are you saying, I then wouldn't have to have it ding my policy for such small potatoes, regardless of what my emotions may tell me? What a noble concept!
 
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