[JumboJack]

This is an interesting thread.

So you don't charge a mark up on the paint?

If you do charge a mark up on the materials, doesn't that mean the customer bought them?

I give my residential customers an estimate, which means the actual cost may be slightly more or less than the estimate depending on my waste, add ons, etc. If I need more materials, I will add that to their final bill. If I have extra materials I can return, I will return them and subtract that cost from their final bill.

For me, the 'service' I sell is separate from the materials and I generally break it out that way on the estimate and bill. Haven't had any problems so far.

You are the only person I think I have ever heard do it like this...
If I tell a customer it will cost xxxx.xx to build a patio cover,then that is what it will cost them.No more,no less.It's not the customer's problem if I did not order enough or if I ordered too much.I does not matter what I buy at the lumber yard or what I have left over.I order extra to save myself time in case I make a mistake....

 

[custrel]

You are the only person I think I have ever heard do it like this...
If I tell a customer it will cost xxxx.xx to build a patio cover,then that is what it will cost them.No more,no less.It's not the customer's problem if I did not order enough or if I ordered too much.I does not matter what I buy at the lumber yard or what I have left over.I order extra to save myself time in case I make a mistake....

Well, it might be that I'm not as confident in my residential estimates so I don't give hard bids... that and material costs do fluctuate when a client takes a month to consider the bid, or if we have to schedule the work later in the year if we are busy.

But I think that is the norm here. None of the subs or GCs I'm familiar with give hard bids, just estimates.

For commercial work though, that's all we do, hard bids. If we overbid, we keep it, if we underbid, we eat it. So I can see where you guys are coming from.

 

[HusqyPro]

I've run into that half a dozen times on landscape fabric. I buy in bulk from Baileys. Big rolls, up to 3,000 sq. ft. After I install 250 or so sq. ft. I've had customers ask to keep the roll, mistakenly thinking it belongs to them. Now I write it up on the scope of work as "install 250 sq. ft. of landscape fabric". Plant material, mulch, earth, and the like I just install. As long as my math is remotely correct there's no leftovers. Hardscape products I always order a few extra and let the customer keep. A few years down the road a block may break and it'll be discontinued. Always leave the customer a few spares for routine repairs. As a rule I figure 1 block per 100 sq. ft. for future repairs.

 

[bonz]

I know this sounds sarcastic, and I mean no offense, but I am suprised by some of the responses I am reading here...


I don't leave materials behind (with the exception of the leftovers in a paint can (for touch up after someone scratches or dings a painted surface).

I certainly don't offer any credit or refund if we don't use all the materials purchased for a job. Heck, ussually we buy more than we need just so we don't have to stop and go back for supplies in case someone scews up. Return the overstock at the end of the project...

Aren't we "Contractors"???

I sell completed jobs. Often I subcontract a portion of a job out. I would be laughed at (not to mention extremely embarrassed) if I asked my subcontractors to refund any unused supplies (or leave them behind for the customer)...

Hey Electrician! I know you bid 1000ft roll of 12/2 wire for that project but only used 798 ft. Make sure you refund me the unused 202 ft or leave it behind for the customer... :w00t::w00t::w00t:

Hey Plumber! That toilet you installed didn't need the extra wax ring you included in the proposal, make sure you leave it behind or refund the value... :w00t::w00t::w00t:

------

Insurance companies always expect up to 10% extra materials on submitted proposals. Anyone ever been asked to give back the unused materials or drop your price in the end???

 

[Metro M & L]

If you don't have too much you don't have enough.

 

[freemason21]

Yup thats what I do. I take stuff as I have it left over through out the job. Like the time I over calculated some Hardie siding by about 50 pieces and they were already painted so no returns:shutup: I had to do a covert operation on that one:laughing:


Dave

:laughing: that must of been fun

 

[custrel]

I certainly don't offer any credit or refund if we don't use all the materials purchased for a job. :w00t::w00t::w00t:

:w00t::w00t::w00t:

Yeah, saving the customer some money IS pretty laughable.

 

[slowforthecones]

You guys crack me up. I learned from a car dealership general manager I do work for from time to time. There is a old saying...if someone has something good to say about you....they will tell 20 people. If they have something bad to say about you, they will tell 50 people. So it's your reputation on the line for future customers, word of mouth is one of the most effective form of advertising and I would not risk my reputation on some some junk scrap material with a penny pinching customer. Like another poster, don't make your excess material look like a large sore thumb sticking out, start moving stuff off the jobsite when you have rendered no need for it anymore. Don't wait till close of job to packup all the materials. In the customers eyes they paid big money and feel they paid for the materials including the excess regardless if they know for a FACT or not the excess was not included on the bill and part of your inventory/overhead you keep on hand all the time.

 

[oldfrt]

It depends on the job,
Time and material:
HO gets it all.
Contract Price:
Roofing: Leave some shingles behind for repairs
Siding: Leave a few extra panels for repairs
Whenever we use a product that may need partial replacement because of possible future damage,we try to leave the HO with something for the repair.
It lets them know that the appearance of your work is as important to you down the line as it is to them.

 

[HusqyPro]

Reputation is important and all, but there's no way I'm leaving a 3,000 square foot roll of landscape fabric for a home owner that paid for a few hundred square feet of it. That's ridiculous.

 

[slowforthecones]

Reputation is important and all, but there's no way I'm leaving a 3,000 square foot roll of landscape fabric for a home owner that paid for a few hundred square feet of it. That's ridiculous.

Right..I would not leave that much fabric behind either. There is a reasonable and a unreasonable expectation. It's good to have it in writing but to argue with a customer over a "small" excess is not good business as far as reputations in the long run. At the end of the day, I always move excess back to my truck or van. I usually have a helper move the goods while I engage in some conversation about paperwork/payment with the customer. Or talk about other projects...that way it's easier done than right in front of them.

 

[DavidC]

We sell the completed project, materials all belong to the company until installed. I will leave behind open packages such as a partial bundle of shingles or up to a square of vinyl siding under the guise of future repairs. I have no use for that godawful sickly color they chose, they can have all leftover paint. Even full cans. Primer is bought in fivers and go from job to job.

But if a client asks specifically for a few leftovers, tell him you don't ususally, that it's not part of the contract, but he's such a great customer why not. I'd rather his memory of me and my business be associated with pleasant thoughts, we do a lot of repeat business.

You can avoid the paying for only 28sq. when the job was bid for 30 by not specifying that quantity. Sell them a complete new roof and list all the products you will use, just not the quantities.

Lump sum bids remove many targets from the customers sights.

Good Luck
Dave

 

[bwalley]

any of you run into this? you do a project and have materials left over and the HO wants to keep them. they say that they belong to them cuz they payed for the job. true they paid for the job.....but really not the materials. i always order more than i need...just in case. now if i was short on materials, shouldnt i be able to collect money?.....prolly not i tell the HO....if the materials are installed on your home,ect... then they are yours, but some people just dont understand.

The materials belong to you, the homeowner paid for a completed job, you are to provide a completed job, any leftover materials are your and you are free to do what you want with them.

I leave any color matched paint and some tile on the jobsite for future repairs, etc. but if I have plywood, block, lumber or other material, it either gets sent back to the supply house or I take it with me.

 

[ModernStyle]

This is an interesting thread.

So you don't charge a mark up on the paint?

If you do charge a mark up on the materials, doesn't that mean the customer bought them?

I give my residential customers an estimate, which means the actual cost may be slightly more or less than the estimate depending on my waste, add ons, etc. If I need more materials, I will add that to their final bill. If I have extra materials I can return, I will return them and subtract that cost from their final bill.

For me, the 'service' I sell is separate from the materials and I generally break it out that way on the estimate and bill. Haven't had any problems so far.

I dont seperate my materials from my service, I will list what materials to be used in the contract but I am not gonna write down 10 gallons of this, 5 gallons of that. The HO's get a price, I am not gonna break it down for labor and materials, McDonalds doesnt do it, in fact most places dont,

 

[bwalley]

Well, it might be that I'm not as confident in my residential estimates so I don't give hard bids... that and material costs do fluctuate when a client takes a month to consider the bid, or if we have to schedule the work later in the year if we are busy.

But I think that is the norm here. None of the subs or GCs I'm familiar with give hard bids, just estimates.

For commercial work though, that's all we do, hard bids. If we overbid, we keep it, if we underbid, we eat it. So I can see where you guys are coming from.

It isn't difficult if you know what you are doing to give a hard bid to a client, especially in a residential job.

Material do not fluctuate that much in a month or two period, if you are worried about material price increases, you can put a material escalation clause in your contract.

 

[HusqyPro]

When writing the scope of work on my contracts it looks something like this:

Install 500 sq. ft. landscape fabric
Install 22 yards mulch
Install 14 arborvitaes
Install 12 flats assorted flowers & groundcover

I don't break out what all that costs. At the end is a final price.

How do you guys write your scope of work?

 

[RobertCDF]

Did you get a discount at burger king when you said no tomatoes? That is excess material you "paid for".

Why cant contractors see themselves as a business? I sell people my BUSINESS all the time... Guess what a business is for?? Making MONEY! You cant feel like your ripping someone off if they sign a fixed price contract. They could have chosen someone else that was cheaper.

People who (unless doing T&M) just give rough estimates and then come back with a higher final bill are what give contractors a bad name. Write a detailed contract and include verbiage for CHANGE ORDERS!!

 

[DavidC]

When writing the scope of work on my contracts it looks something like this:

Install 500 sq. ft. landscape fabric
Install 22 yards mulch
Install 14 arborvitaes
Install 12 flats assorted flowers & groundcover

I don't break out what all that costs. At the end is a final price.

How do you guys write your scope of work?

To use your list Bob, I might propose;

Install 1 complete layer of landscape fabric over entire_________ (describe area)
Install mulch x" deep over ________(describe area)
Note to self - look up arborvitaes
Plant assorted annuals/perennials and ground cover according to attached drawing. (and of course attach a drawing)

Good Luck
Dave

 

[ARI001]

Typically I take the left over material when I leave. The exceptions to this are custom mixed paint, shingles (I try to leave a bundle or two), siding (A couple of pieces), carpet scraps (will leave them if they want them), and floor tile (2 or 3 tiles). I do mark up materials and I also spec quantities and manufactures of the material for in house work only. They pay for the amount specified. I don't itemize sub-contractor bids. Customers will only see a lump sum fee for work that will be subcontracted out.

 

[Jaketoo]

If you have a fixed contract price for labor and material (the only way I do it), extra material belongs to you.

Although 1 time I was doing an addition for a local cop, and I let him keep the 2 extra sheets of plywood and some 2x6.

I was loading this stuff on my truck on my last day there, when this guy comes racing up in his cruiser, really pissed off that I was "stealing" his stuff.

He told me his wife called him, and told him I was stealing their material.

I tried to explain it to him, but decided this extra stock was more trouble than it was worth. I pulled the stock back out. I was just happy to get out of there.

I'm glad this subject was brought up, because I am going to spell this out in my Contract.

On another note, I just recieved a signed contract in the mail with deposit, for rebuilding 3 sets of exterior stairs. The homeowner sent me an email to say she had made a change to my "form".

She crossed out the "No" where it says "No sanding, staining, or painting work included"

I wrote void accross the check and mailed it back.