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Instead having the trowel handy to recycle the extruded mortar for the next head joint it falls on the hop in shoe maker land. .



Being an open forum as the name implies,here is a point of view on the subject expressed by mason and author Gerard Lynch.

"Some inferior methods of applying the head joints in the name of production are practiced by the bricklayer. In the shoving method,as a brick is laid and the excess mortar is squeezed out of the bed joint the trowel blade collects it cleanly in a swinging action,and places the mortar upon the cross-joint face of the previously laid brick on the front and back arris. Where this method is adopted only the outer arris is buttered,especially in tight joint work. Thus one has,constructionally,a weak joint and alas another point of entry for wind driven rain. This method was traditionally used on the walling,which was grouted upon completion of each course and insured good solid walling.It has no place on modern cavity or veneer construction."
 

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The grouting used to be done on 9 inch walls, known as larrying in, or up. BRE did some tests on poorly built cavity walls, and found that it took about 20 minutes for heavy driven rain to penetrate the cross joints and run off the snots, bounce off the ties and on to the inside blockwork.
 

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A shove joint here is a unit pressed into final position while the head and bed joints are extruding some mortar. not the 'slush' joint you described.
I use the cut off mud to wet the edge(s) of the right hand head joint so the buttered unit's mortar fill the head joint completely eliminating the need for "tuckpointing" prior to tooling the joints.

Your previous source fails to test the loss of tensile and torsional strength caused by the hammer techinque.
Masonry Engineers rarely test for either because its so much cheaper to do a squeeze test than the others

How do you ensure the bed joint is still in 100% contact with all Four units after impact? The fact that you have to increase the pressure several, 10 ,20 100 x over just the strength of your arm/shoulder creates voids when the pressure ends and the mortar stops flowing to fill the voids created during the impact event.
If I had a friend, one that never worked on my walls, and he insisted on tapping units, I suggest waiting till the whole course was laid and then doing them all at once... to lower the lost production....
If your mortar is so weak that a few psi is needed, add some portland, take out some of the lime dust...

I can't ever see tapping units laid to a line as a bonafide bricklaying method... I could be wrong...But it is very very unlikely in this case.
 

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Re: the British post WWII? film, Poor boot can't afford a car in post WWII's labor paradise... Great Britian.

Like the old school Plumb bob plumb rule, there is a money maker, waiting for the plumb bob to quit bouncing off the wood of your level....

Are you referring to the tapping on the already laid to the line brick, the "Mason" is knocking the formerly plumb faces out of plumb so that the never to be seen again top of the brick is "level" bump to bump..... that is 3 month cub thinking....this clown wouldn't make it to lunch unless the crew needed some giggles.

I think and hope you have a couple of actors playing at masonry... I'll watch the credits next time.

Again the inside man attacks an already complete course with his plumb rule---wasn't the line plumb to last course? Again more I want to be unemployed mason techniques.

Its funny to see the Brits using what was obsolete for 40 years already scaffolding-with no material shelf.
Spreading mortar then fooling around screading it off like one is setting a stone is another pack your grip trick.... no wonder they had beat the brick down to the line after the mortar laid there for minutes instead of seconds....

Some teach by postive example, most teach by negative.....
 

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Your previous source fails to test the loss of tensile and torsional strength caused by the hammer techinque.
Masonry Engineers rarely test for either because its so much cheaper to do a squeeze test than the others


You seem adamant to refute the findings of those bond strength tests,insisting that the head joints suffer as a result and a 50-100% bond strength increase is "slight".


If you can provide examples of test data that support your point of view I would be most interested in viewing them. Without such data perhaps,your point of view can be taken only as pure conjecture on your part.
 

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Couldn't find the actual test that resulted in a doubling of "bond" strength, but I'll goggle the miracle method I'd never heard of before...

Again I can't see how one could beat down the unit without destroying the head joint and or leaving voids in the bed joint---Tap the front, tap the back, tap the center, there is two unbonded ends left, a camel hump of stronger(surplus water has been extruded) in compression but weaker in all other measured directions. Where does that extruded water go, into the head joint base and into the uncompressed mortar in the voids in the bricks, now that mortar there is weakened.....that mechanically bonds the wall when the suction bond fails, tapped wall are easier to disassemble due to damage to many of the cement paste fingers being broken by the movement of the unit after initial set.

The test was stacked units with ZERO consideration of heads joints, bond etc....
How do you tap set a stack bond panel without destroying previously laid courses?

My Prism break tests have achieved 5 6 and 7 Kips with our 14kPsi units using 2500Psi masonry cement... doubling that would be stronger than the brick.....:smile:

I don't see any concrete masons using a plate compactor to get stronger concrete....
If tapping does more good then harm I'll become one of those shoe makers...

Some questions for those that still might have an open mind, A. why are walls built with masonry mortars tougher then those built with neat portland?(Maybe other properties besides compressive strength are important.) Why do dry and clean units make a stronger wall then wet and or dirty units? part b why shouldn't you ever use used bricks or blocks in exposed or load bearing walls? How do I capture the valued added by my tapping the units, Get paid? Why isn't the whole industry tinkering away?
 

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No one compacts a wet pad obviously, however asphalt patches work that way. I always plunge the mud with hand tools, for pockets voids, even core filling. In effect would tapping, provided the consistency of mud isn't crap, provide assurance of bond and small voids? I can understand a complaint against always adjusting but it's inevitably an added benefit as well, to uniformly tap block and such. Adjusting sections that would cause irreversible damage is obviously wrong as well.
 

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If you need to tap units down to the line, the mud is cr$p, or you spread to much wall... or the units need to be pre wetted, see the 6 drops in a circle wait 5 minutes to check for visable water remaining rule....
Asphalt is conglomerate, rolling concretes would actually break the fraction of cement that had set...
Our AIA contracts here specifically forbid tapping...

I'd question that 50 to 100% increase test actually compared the same thicknesses of bed joints.... the thinnner the joint to brick ratio, the higher break # do to greater confinement of the mortar sections.

All other things being = eventually tappers will either accept much lower wages, or financially fail out of the trade, some will graviate to patch work or the Internet :smile:
 

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Fouthgeneration; [COLOR=black said:
I don't see any concrete masons using a plate compactor to get stronger concrete....[/COLOR]




Ever see a concrete mason using a vibrator ?:whistling
 

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Not on a bed joint.... definetely not on head joints.:rolleyes:
Raise the foot hop maybe next time...Kniggit

Fewer monkey motions per unit laid = less sore body parts. I'd try a day not overspreading, skip the several hundred "taps", and see if the shoulders hurt less. :smile:

Having to tap the unit above your shoulders is more silly than tapping on ones laid in the "sweet spot", knees to elbow high...

The excess water in mortar is in it to eliminate the extra operations to create a bond. i.e. make $ and not damage one's body while doing so.

Now that we all are paying each others Obama-Care, will the Uncle Sam start punishing those that injure themselves at work by repetitive unneeded impacts on their bodies?
I don't know if I've ever seen a sixty year old full time tappers and darn few fifty year old tinkers that were able to still lay 40 hours a week.

I will admit to occasionally tapping a cmu head joint tighter for bond spacing, but I'm still trying for squeeze joints on every unit except the closure of course.

The biggest deal breaker on tapping is that it is imprecise, either one taps very lightly(and slowly) several times and sneeks down to the line, or one excepts close enough hammer blows and walks away from a less than economically possible flat wall finish with the mortar splatters(extra $ for clean up) from using a dirty trowel as a hammer.
 

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I tap out of habit. any chimney guy will be a tapper. when you are building all 4 leads and its 80%+ lead work all day you will be a tapper. Line work I only tap to do fine adjustments when laying to the line. My trowel handle is short and angled from tapping. you should not have to hit the brick but a gentle tap is for the perfect brick work.
 

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While can't speak for all workers My GG pa and G pa did,1939 and Dad bought a new car as 1st yr apprentice, but he lived with Grandma & gpa1945, They were Union in a big City though

Its hard to realise how dirt poor the two WWars made "Great Britian",People were freezing to death in the winters(late 1940s) due lack of coal... in the experiment in socialism, price controls, food rationing for several years post war, etc...

Sixty some years later, 2000-3000 elderly Brits died from exposure IN their homes last early spring as GB ran out of natural gas..... Oooops!

I'll double check, but I think Union scale was~1.20 an hour, 90 cents for labor, 6 pounds(film wages) is about 30.00$ a week/40 =75 cents hour for a journeyman with much higher food costs. 18 cents hour production bonus...

Even now with a little boom of construction wages are still well south of 20 EU an hour in London.

I "tap" on leads, I'm too cheap to beat my level. but what happens to the head joint, it slumps out of place, and has to be pointed.
Brick veneer, I'll screw on 2 speed brackets per post, and than lay every unit to the line nearly. :smile: downside apprentices get very little brick lead time anymore...
 

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No, "thanks for beautiful craftmanship, now please leave the area before the curfew,"

In my town, you can buy 1890s 25'x 100' or120' main street 2 and 3 story business/apartments for 100K$ or less, but they don't have any parking < 20.00$ per sq. ft.
most have full basements.

Why aren't you building your own home where land is cheap? Too many regs?
 

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Land you can build on isn't cheap here. Some developers buy cheap land without building permission and bribe the Council Officials to grant them it.
Where I live the farmers used to build houses for their kids on their land without permission, but once you can prove you have lived in it for 4 years, they can't make you knock it down.
 
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