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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi, I'm new here and looking for some input on laying soap cmu's across an I-beam. Attached is a picture from the blueprint. My question is what keeps the soap blocks in place when they are just a veneer sitting on a plate ledge, particularly when the time comes to grout them in? This is a 9' 2 span and 16". An architect couldn't tell me even when i reached out to one. Font Parallel Slope Rectangle Triangle
 

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Hi, I'm new here and looking for some input on laying soap cmu's across an I-beam. Attached is a picture from the blueprint. My question is what keeps the soap blocks in place when they are just a veneer sitting on a plate ledge, particularly when the time comes to grout them in? This is a 9' 2 span and 16". An architect couldn't tell me even when i reached out to one. View attachment 521985
This might get flagged by mods, but...

Architect isn't the correct person to ask about construction and fastening methods. That needs specs from engineer--they're going to be above someone's head!

Also, that drawing calls out block ties welded to the inside of the beam. Doesn't that already answer your question?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This might get flagged by mods, but...

Architect isn't the correct person to ask about construction and fastening methods. That needs specs from engineer--they're going to be above someone's head!

Also, that drawing calls out block ties welded to the inside of the beam. Doesn't that already answer your question?
Yeah, I figured it out I think.
 

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If this is an overhead door I fill the backside or inside of the building with brick, and throw mortar behind each brick to make it solid ish for the overhead door to mount to

The outside just use 4 inch block, usually you have to cut each one to make it fit. The drawing shows an anchor welded to the i beam but nobody does the chit unless it’s a big project that gets inspected by the engineer


David
 

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If this is an overhead door I fill the backside or inside of the building with brick, and throw mortar behind each brick to make it solid ish for the overhead door to mount to

The outside just use 4 inch block, usually you have to cut each one to make it fit. The drawing shows an anchor welded to the i beam but nobody does the chit unless it’s a big project that gets inspected by the engineer
David
I would not take the risk. The bid includes the welding, it must be done unless you state in your bid the alternative you will use. I have seen bids made showing the cost per spec and the alternative, then let the customer decide.
I was on one job with long runs of stranded MC. The call out was 10 gage from the panel to the first junction box. The foreman decided to use 12 ga as it was rated 25 amp (allowed for the distance on a 20 amp circuit). It was caught AFTER walls and flooring were in. The loss to the company was HUGE. The engineer called out a spec. It had to be followed.
Build per spec or do not bid, that simple, your statement is actually proof of fraud which is not good.
 

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Build per spec or do not bid, that simple, your statement is actually proof of fraud which is not good.
Calling me a fraud it’s kind of funny, I’m a third generation contractor that has seen the good the bad and the ugly that specializes in masonry openings and I beams

Most drawings are literally a cut and paste detail that architects put in there and have absolutely no idea the intent or purpose, the OP Even stated that he reached out to the architect and couldn’t get an answer

For example the pin on top of the I-beam is another feature that is completely unnecessary on short openings (9’2” opening as showing above) and rarely put in place, they are usually in the way and create a situation where you have to cut the webs of the block out creating a weaker block above the beam


I don’t know the region the OP is from, I could understand the need for the pins and welding of the anchor point if he is a seismic zone but here in the Midwest the welding and the anchor points would create a huge problem trying to flash that I beam properly which would cause a lot more problems with rust and corrosion rather than worrying about ensuring a 9 foot wide opening with at 16 INCH TALL BEAM is tied together to the masonry

To the Op I just realized that is a 12”wide wall so what I usually do is have the steel guy offset the the I beam slightly on the plate to get a 4” wide CMU on the back side and plan on a 6” inch wide CMU on the front side, or you can make it easy and center the beam and just use 4” blocks on both sides, throwing mortar behind each block to make it solid

There is no need for “soaps”

David
 

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Hate to be a downer here, but...for the record, I would strongly advise taking construction materials and methods suggestions from someone on the internet (even if they are an expert in the field). Particularly when that does not meet spec'd plan requirements. Is there an engineer on record that you could reach out to? How about connecting with clients about an effective method to get in touch with the architect?
 

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For example the pin on top of the I-beam is another feature that is completely unnecessary on short openings (9’2” opening as showing above) and rarely put in place, they are usually in the way and create a situation where you have to cut the webs of the block out creating a weaker block above the beam
The problem with your statements is that you are advocating not following the requirements of a design professional. The EoR or AoR. True you may have a huge amount of practical experience, but you are not licensed to design structural elements.

We used to call the pins Nelson studs, they help tie the steel to the concrete. If you omit the stud because it’s inconvenient to work around, you are weakening the overall structure. For the past 50 yrs or so, designers have been economizing structures, leaving out redundancies, making every element important.
 

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The problem with your statements is that you are advocating not following the requirements of a design professional. The EoR or AoR. True you may have a huge amount of practical experience, but you are not licensed to design structural elements.

We used to call the pins Nelson studs, they help tie the steel to the concrete. If you omit the stud because it’s inconvenient to work around, you are weakening the overall structure. For the past 50 yrs or so, designers have been economizing structures, leaving out redundancies, making every element important.
This is a much more concise way of saying what I tried to say! Thanks, Eddie.
 

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The problem with your statements is that you are advocating not following the requirements of a design professional. The EoR or AoR. True you may have a huge amount of practical experience, but you are not licensed to design structural elements.

We used to call the pins Nelson studs, they help tie the steel to the concrete. If you omit the stud because it’s inconvenient to work around, you are weakening the overall structure. For the past 50 yrs or so, designers have been economizing structures, leaving out redundancies, making every element important.
For the record I am not advocating to do whatever you want in regards to the plans, I said they create a situation where you need to remove the web of the block creating a weaker CMU then grouting the CMU full which causes a really weak CMU face that cracks easily, I have seen CMU faces completely blown off and the only thing left is the bond beam grout

engineers will always prevail if there is a dispute. And I never said I was a higher authority

I do a lot of repair on masonry structures and will tell you that steel and grouting CMUs sometimes isn’t always the best thing, strong yes but if the steel starts to corrode it blows the face of the CMUs apart

I get called to repair them all of the time where the grouted CMUs are all cracked up due to the expansion. Here is a fence where they did more harm than good by grouting the cores full with rebar





David
 

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For the record I am not advocating to do whatever you want in regards to the plans, I said they create a situation where you need to remove the web of the block creating a weaker CMU then grouting the CMU full which causes a really weak CMU face that cracks easily, I have seen CMU faces completely blown off and the only thing left is the bond beam grout

engineers will always prevail if there is a dispute. And I never said I was a higher authority

I do a lot of repair on masonry structures and will tell you that steel and grouting CMUs sometimes isn’t always the best thing, strong yes but if the steel starts to corrode it blows the face of the CMUs apart

I get called to repair them all of the time where the grouted CMUs are all cracked up due to the expansion. Here is a fence where they did more harm than good by grouting the cores full with rebar





David
Windycity has the right practical answer to the situation. I'm sure the engineer will agree with him.
 
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