[pjf52]

any pricing guidelines for hiring help by the job or piece. i am a residential contractor trying to compete and having a hard time paying by the hour.

 

[hatchet]

Huh? How is paying by the piece going to make you more competitive?

 

[Teetorbilt]

You're talking subs?
Employees want just that, to be employed. Show up at 7 and leave at 4, no more, no less without incentive. Benefits will usually drive these guys. I posted some of my techniques and if you pore over some of the old posts you may discover them.
This may help and it doesn't cost much. I no longer have employees, I have an extended family.

 

[JustaFramer]

Word of warning by the piece. If the crews you hire are not contractors. You still have to pay worker comp. Record hours worked. If the piece price doesn't cover minium wage you will have to pay the difference to your employees. That being said you know how to speak spanish. Also hire pick up carpenter's and pay them good because they will be picking up alot of garbage and a low wage isn't going to cut it.. LOL

have fun hacking

 

[JustaFramer]

You're talking subs?
Employees want just that, to be employed. Show up at 7 and leave at 4, no more, no less without incentive. Benefits will usually drive these guys. I posted some of my techniques and if you pore over some of the old posts you may discover them.
This may help and it doesn't cost much. I no longer have employees, I have an extended family.

Teetor in WA piece is big. On big condo projects and some tract and hacks do it too. The prices are either whole houses or broken down. One crew does just floors, stairs, wall, and roof. I used to do joist and stairs. And the mexican crews do walls and roof. Then there is the pick up crew mostly hourly. This is true cali pro style in action.

pjf52 -what is your total sq ft price I could help more with a numbers.

 

[Nathan]

Its called a motivated work force Rich.

I basically pay all my guys buy the piece (or by the house). What type of pricing info are you looking for? What type of work...

 

[Nathan]

Terrible site but here is some info: http://paypiecework.com/

 

[PipeGuy]

i am having a hard time paying by the hour.

What exactly does that mean? Does it mean:
You can't get any help at the offered wage level?
You're having to pay higher wages than those you estimated in order to get good help?
You need to get more production for less wages in order to 'make it work'?
None of the above.

 

[Teetorbilt]

Rich, I'm still muddling through the 'piece' concept. The way that I'm reading it is that you can build a house by piece without contractors. I have to be missing something but I read it thrice.

 

[JustaFramer]

Rich, I'm still muddling through the 'piece' concept. The way that I'm reading it is that you can build a house by piece without contractors. I have to be missing something but I read it thrice.

As long as you pay the taxes fica,fw,unemloyment,worker comp. It is legal and record hours worked. And if you employee have one iota of the real price most will not do it. That is why mexican crew do alot of piece. I was a lucky one in the game they didn't want to do joist and nobody in there right mind would let them do stairs.
Every week I would get my check and ask for a raise and every week I was told you and the pick up carps all ready get paid the most.

 

[Teetorbilt]

If I pay all of that they are considered employees in this state. I suppose that I could pay by the piece as long as the hourly wage met the minimum wage. Way too complicated in the record keeping plus it sounds like somebody skating on the slime pool, not my style.

 

[PipeGuy]

Employees want just that, to be employed. Show up at 7 and leave at 4, no more, no less without incentive. Benefits will usually drive these guys.

I agree entirely, and compensation packages usually reflect company priorities.
It's one thing to pay by the piece in the context of providing a finished product (i.e., re-paint or re-roof someone's home, cut a lawn, re-pave a driveway, etc.). In such instances the obvious and overlapping quality control concerns of customer and contractor serve to offset the natural tendency to sacrifice workmanship on the altar of short term productivity. It's another thing entirely to pay by the piece in the context of providing a 'cog' for a much larger wheel (new work). In those instances I see a constant struggle to maintain the bare minimum acceptable level of workmanship. I've never seen quality piece work done in 'new work'.

 

[JustaFramer]

If I pay all of that they are considered employees in this state. I suppose that I could pay by the piece as long as the hourly wage met the minimum wage. Way too complicated in the record keeping plus it sounds like somebody skating on the slime pool, not my style.

And that is what most of the guys who do it are slime balls. If you really do the math if your crews have a bad day or week (we all have one) they get screwed bad. If a guy want solid work from me it's 20 dollar a hour or better .I know so many sub's that put down you made 50 dollars a hour and worked 30 hours in two weeks. BS more like 90 hrs. Illegal I have reported a couple guys to LnI but they don't give a [email protected] That is screwing with my unemployment. If I need it. I wonce worked like that for a couple months got laid off and recieved like 300 dollars a week when I should of got maxed out. Well I had to find work in the middle of december. OUCH Glad I burn bridges only with the hacks. I've been known to go out in a blaze of glory. hehe
I'll save that story for another time. lol

 

[hatchet]

Piecework is not a whole roof, or a trim package... at least in it's true sense. In a tract home environment I can put together scopes that could be called pieces of each house - but it's still a whole scope of work not just "a" piece. Piecework, IMO, is paying per stud in a wall, or per 10' stick of molding.
Trust me I know what piecework is - try by the board foot in logging. The more scaled board footage of logs you take off the hill the more you get paid - and yes you are definately motivated to do as much work as possible in as short a time as possible. Or how about tons of stone out of a rock quarry - did that too (by hand I might add ).
The initial setup of a true piecework pay scale is so labor intensive - it's ridiculous. And to get there you first need to know how many hours it takes for the assembly of those pieces as a whole. Imagine counting the seconds to install one stud in a wall to figure your piecework rate.. no thanks.

 

[DecksEtc]

Want to talk about piece work...

When I was 12-13, we used to go to a local farm/labour camp and pick strawberries. A bus would go through town and pick us up. We'd pick strawberries all day in the hot sun and the pay was $1 for every flat of strawberries (each flat had 8 quarts in it) we picked. They'd stamp a card everytime we brought a full flat back to flatbed truck that was parked at the farthest end of the field, or so it seemed. At the end of the day the old, ugly farmer's wife would drive up in her beat up car with a huge wad of $1 bills and pay you according to the number of stamps you had on your card. A good day was $20.

Of course, I couldn't complain when I got home because if I did I would have to hear the stoies from my Dad and Mom about how when they were kids they used to "only get paid 25 cents per bushel of tomatoes".

Ah, the good ole days...

 

[JustaFramer]

This is going rate for piece price. under floor .35-.40 First floor walls(if there are less walls than 2nd) .40-.45 (includes p&L)Plate and detail .10 2nd floor jiost (includes setting beams) .40-.45 2nd floor walls .45-50 Roof .75-1.00 or a flat rate which is usually less than .75 rate. all rates are by the sq ft.
Stairs 100 dollars a set no fire blocks on rake walls or $5-10 a tread 50 dollars a landing both prices. Then there will be your hourly rate pick up carpenters. But this attracts mexican crews and they go fast with usually more guys than was those rate will pay. Expect hack & slash. Your pick up crew will be putting alot of straps on the should not be there. ie top plate cut less than 4 feet back. Firring out walls. Pure bull******************** work. but they willbe doing alot of the final detail to. You will never get a crew to stick around because there will be a guy who will pay a nickel more a sq ft. LOL Your pick up carps will be burned out in no time. So get a continous ad for employment in the paper. But hey you'll get more house built. By the end of the job or some where in between the jobsite superitendent and PM will hate you and you probably be fired and never come back to that builder
I know this because I have seen all over in two countys big countys.

Hey you will be putting up alot more houses. The trade off your reputation for profit. You could retire quicker

 

[Teetorbilt]

Terry, you must be older than me, glee here! Where did you used to live, prior to Canada, where there was a hot day?
I remember when you could get by on $90 a week, have some fun on $120. For you young guys, this is inflation.

 

[hatchet]

Want to talk about piece work...

When I was 12-13, we used to go to a local farm/labour camp and pick strawberries. A bus would go through town and pick us up. We'd pick strawberries all day in the hot sun and the pay was $1 for every flat of strawberries (each flat had 8 quarts in it) we picked. They'd stamp a card everytime we brought a full flat back to flatbed truck that was parked at the farthest end of the field, or so it seemed. At the end of the day the old, ugly farmer's wife would drive up in her beat up car with a huge wad of $1 bills and pay you according to the number of stamps you had on your card. A good day was $20.

Of course, I couldn't complain when I got home because if I did I would have to hear the stoies from my Dad and Mom about how when they were kids they used to "only get paid 25 cents per bushel of tomatoes".

Ah, the good ole days...

That's too funny - I did that for a summer when I stayed at my cousins in Hillsboro, Oregon. Wasn't all that glamorous - but I made money