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Service & Repairs
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As some of you know I am conservative in my political views. So naturally, I was watching Hannity tonight. But during commercials I flip around to see if a hockey games on or what some of the other so-called "news" channels like CNN and MSNBC are saying. Tonight I got the shock of my life.

On the Racheal Maddow show, she had on a guest discussing poor electrical wiring in Iraq. A couple of soldiers have died there because poor grounding and bonding, or lack thereof. Anyway, the guests name was, Debbie Crawford. She worked for a sub-contractor named KBR and claims she worked in the Green Zone in 2006 and spent 2 years there working for KBR as a journeymen electrician. Here is some of the interview that took place.

Host Maddow: "I know that you are an experienced electrician, you've worked all over the world, is that the kind of error -- electrical error -- is easy to make? Is it commonly made or is it something you would only do if you really didn't know what you were doing?"

Guest Debbie Crawford: "Clearly, um, that's an error..... (pause).... yeah, no, you don't do that. I haven't seen that anywhere but in Iraq."

Early on in the segment Ms Crawford presented this picture to television viewing audience:



This image projects 180 volts from "hot" to water source.

Now clearly she's not even remotely close to being an "experienced electrician" much less a "journeymen electrician" if she cannot even explain why something like this happens to a national audience even if only a few hundred people watch this awful show. This happens all over the world unfortunately (objectionable current flow) and none of us have to travel the world to know it. This objectionable current flow happens when a parallel path is made for electrons flowing back to their source. In the event that a grounded neutral conductor becomes detached from device or it's permanent termination point inside an electrical panel, ALL of the return electrons will flow on gas pipes, copper water pipes, or anything else that acts as a conductor. This is definitely negligence on behalf of any electrician who does this wether by accident or not.

Thoughts?
 

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Service & Repairs
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
directly from Ms Sparky website:

Ms Sparky’s Response:
Correct me if I’m wrong. If the hot water heater is properly grounded and bonded to a system that is properly grounded, and the breaker is functioning properly, it should have tripped on ground fault current.
duh!


Guess she's not really a journeymen electrician afterall.
 

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Fentoozler
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Early on in the segment Ms Crawford presented this picture to television viewing audience:



This image projects 180 volts from "hot" to water source.


Thoughts?
What is the other lead connected to?
 

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I'd say the other probe lead is connected to ground.


MsSparky seems like a stand-up person.

I highly admire what she is trying to do.

You DO realize US Soldiers have been DYING from faulty wiring/etc under KBR direction?

Doesn't this infuriate you?

Why dare try to diss a woman that is STANDING UP and doing the RIGHT thing?

She seems like someone that I wouldn't hesitate to work with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
You sound like a perfect co-worker for Ms Sparky, but what I'd like to know is how you're going to get 180 volts to ground from ground to running water.

Her intentions are good but she's clearly not a journeymen electrician and I don't like that MSLSD portrayed her as one. They're notorious for lies and half truths and this is yet another example of their BS.

Why dare try to diss a woman that is STANDING UP and doing the RIGHT thing?
If she was trying to do the right thing she'd have looked for where the neutral was connected to the EGC and disconnected. It's not as if KBR wanted to kill American troops but that's how the libs want this argument to be shaped.

Have you read her blog? She's clueless as an electrician. I'm a veteran of the first Gulf War so I definitely want what's best for the troops.
 

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My License Ain't 4 Sale..
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I think the idea was that one probe was grounded and that the water itself was hot. This could easily happen with an improperly grounded malfunctioning pump or water heater. I believe this happened to the Marine that was killed in the shower. A bad made-in-China pump energized the water line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think the idea was that one probe was grounded and that the water itself was hot. This could easily happen with an improperly grounded malfunctioning pump or water heater. I believe this happened to the Marine that was killed in the shower. A bad made-in-China pump energized the water line.
Could you explain that to me?
 

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My License Ain't 4 Sale..
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Could you explain that to me?
OK, let's say that you have a metal water system supplied by a pump. Neither the pump or the piping is properly bonded to the service neutral via an equipment grounding conductor. The pump develops a line-to-case fault, energizing the pump and the metal piping it is connected to. The overcurrent device will not operate because there is no fault path. The piping and the water within those pipe are now at line potential above true ground. Let's say that maybe your shower drain is metal and properly bonded. You turn the water on while you are outside of the shower, so you don't notice anything. Now you might feel a strange tingle while you are in the shower (maybe not).

You are standing in the shower when you reach for the handle to turn the water off. BANG! you're dead. This would also explain how you could read a voltage from the running water in the sink to ground.
 

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Custom Stuff
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You know what? I am constantly impressed with people who know their shiite and can explain it. Thank you all for taking the time to learn and do it right. As a GC, I see many hacks (I don't use them) who don't know their arse from a hole in the ground, but by God, they got a trade license. Amazing. Good tradesmen are worth their weight in gold. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
OK, let's say that you have a metal water system supplied by a pump. Neither the pump or the piping is properly bonded to the service neutral via an equipment grounding conductor. The pump develops a line-to-case fault, energizing the pump and the metal piping it is connected to. The overcurrent device will not operate because there is no fault path. The piping and the water within those pipe are now at line potential above true ground. Let's say that maybe your shower drain is metal and properly bonded. You turn the water on while you are outside of the shower, so you don't notice anything. Now you might feel a strange tingle while you are in the shower (maybe not).

You are standing in the shower when you reach for the handle to turn the water off. BANG! you're dead. This would also explain how you could read a voltage from the running water in the sink to ground.

And that's exactly what I meant when I said there was objectionable current flow which there obviously is. With a reading of 180 volts to ground, is this a nominal voltage to ground, single pole, or a two-pole set up at 220 - 230? Does anyone know?
 

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My License Ain't 4 Sale..
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And that's exactly what I meant when I said there was objectionable current flow which there obviously is. With a reading of 180 volts to ground, is this a nominal voltage to ground, single pole, or a two-pole set up at 220 - 230? Does anyone know?
If I had to guess, I'd say that it comes from a single pole 240 V source (like in the U.K.) with some drop through an active piece of equipment, such as a water pump winding.
 
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