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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just curious of your thoughts on this and what your inspectors require.

I'm laying out a self supported deck that will be 12' wide with a 2' cantilever on each side. Joist will be resting on a double 2x10 beam with H1's, ends will be in joist hangers where they attach to band joist.

As I'm laying this out, it brought back memories of a conversation I had with a guy years ago. He said he put his hangers on upside down because in reality, the joist is supporting the header and would improve the integrity of the gaurd rail since the pressure would be down and outwards. In all reality, he's probably right...the band joist is not carrying any load from the joist and acts as nothing more than blocking to prevent rotation at the end of the joist. The hand rail load/impact would be downward and the hanger (being on the bottom) would not provide any real bearing support at all.


From my interpretation of code, they are required as a bearing surface at the end of the joist and installing them upside down would be against code.

Have you guys ever down this or seen this practice? Code does seem kinda backwards on this one.
 

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If your joists have full bearing on top the beam why would you need joist hangers on the rim joist? We just use A-35s with a block sandwiching the rail post. I'll see if I can dig up a detail.
 

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Capra Aegagrus
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Excellent question. While I can see drone inspectors nixing such an idea, it makes sense to flip the connectors under those circumstances. To me, anyway. :thumbsup:

Andy, He's talking about a rim/band joist that's essentially hanging off the end of a 2' cantilever, not holding the joists up at all. Nothing to do with connecting to the house.
 

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Tinstaafl said:
Excellent question. While I can see drone inspectors nixing such an idea, it makes sense to flip the connectors under those circumstances. To me, anyway. :thumbsup: Andy, He's talking about a rim/band joist that's essentially hanging off the end of a 2' cantilever, not holding the joists up at all. Nothing to do with connecting to the house.
Hangers aren't designed for that. There are better choices of connectors for that.
 

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Capra Aegagrus
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Oh, I agree that doing it that way would entail some fussing that shouldn't be necessary. but the principle works.

What are your better choices (that inspectors would Ok) ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
They really serve no purpose other a more robust fastening rather than toe nails. It adds a small expense, but could improve integrity in my opinion.

I don't build many decks, which is kinda why I asked. R502.6 states to bear the "end" of the joist so I put them on. I have always used them but was just thinking that using upside down actually would help support railing (in a minimal way).

I do use blocking at the post connection. 1/2" bolts go through the rim, through the rail post, then through a 2X blocking that I toe nail to the joist. The blocking provides a second reinforcement against lateral loads, rather than being on the band joist alone.

So am I overthinking code on this and giving simpson more money than I should? I typically like to over build things and never had an inspector ask me to change/add any of my framing.



Andy. Correct it's free standing. I considered attaching it for lateral restraint, but quickly decided against it in favor of diagonal bracing. There will be no attach ledger to the home. As Tin stated, I'm referring to the band joist attached at the end of the floor joist. There is no load being carried on it because joist are fully supported by the beams.
 

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If I'm reading it right he's attaching his rail posts to the band joist and the hangers are to prevent downward pressure. If this is the case I don think the rail posts need this support as much as they need attachment to prevent outward pressure. This can be achieved with a block behind the rail post sandwiching the rail post. Then you can put an A-35 of each side of the block. Some municipalities require a holddown tying the post to a joist.
 

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I know exactly what you are describing. Not much reason at all to hanger to the rim joist in that situation. Blocking between joists above the beam should handle any twisting issues. If the guard rail is fully supported by the rim joist, I would consider a "hold down" alternative to the hanger, like the Simpson HDU2 . That will keep your cantilevered rim tight to your joist.
 

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To keep the joists from rolling I block between the joists at the beam line as Tote was saying I also use an A-35 from block to beam but that is a siesmic thing for my area.
 

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philcav7 said:
They really serve no purpose other a more robust fastening rather than toe nails. It adds a small expense, but could improve integrity in my opinion. I don't build many decks, which is kinda why I asked. R502.6 states to bear the "end" of the joist so I put them on. I have always used them but was just thinking that using upside down actually would help support railing (in a minimal way). I do use blocking at the post connection. 1/2" bolts go through the rim, through the rail post, then through a 2X blocking that I toe nail to the joist. The blocking provides a second reinforcement against lateral loads, rather than being on the band joist alone. So am I overthinking code on this and giving simpson more money than I should? I typically like to over build things and never had an inspector ask me to change/add any of my framing. Andy. Correct it's free standing. I considered attaching it for lateral restraint, but quickly decided against it in favor of diagonal bracing. There will be no attach ledger to the home. As Tin stated, I'm referring to the band joist attached at the end of the floor joist. There is no load being carried on it because joist are fully supported by the beams.
The code for a joist hanger is required if it's needed to bear the load. Since your beam is bearing the load it's not required. IMO
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I've haven't used the post ties, just blocking. We are not in a severe wind or seismic area. The main things they look at are footing depth and spans, but it varies from one town to the next. One inspector will check to see that all nail holes are filled and the next never even shows up for the final.
 

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I understand the logic behind the hangers being upside down,but to avoid any confrontation with the BI on their interpretation of your intentions,just omit the hangers,and block between the joist ends behind the rim joist.
It ties the rim into the sides of the joist,and you're not relying on the end grain nailing to keep the rim joist from twisting out/dropping down.

This can affect on your rail post connections,so plan accordingly.
 

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I understand the logic behind the hangers being upside down,but to avoid any confrontation with the BI on their interpretation of your intentions,just omit the hangers,and block between the joist ends behind the rim joist.
It ties the rim into the sides of the joist,and you're not relying on the end grain nailing to keep the rim joist from twisting out/dropping down.

This can affect on your rail post connections,so plan accordingly.
In this case, are the posts inside the blocking or outside the rim joist? I might block on top of the supports beams, seems to add rigidity, posts on the inside of the rim and a block/bracket for rail strength.
 

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I understand the logic behind the hangers being upside down,but to avoid any confrontation with the BI on their interpretation of your intentions,just omit the hangers,and block between the joist ends behind the rim joist.
It ties the rim into the sides of the joist,and you're not relying on the end grain nailing to keep the rim joist from twisting out/dropping down.

This can affect on your rail post connections,so plan accordingly.
Hope it's OK to revive this old thread. I agree that joist hangers are not required at the rim joist when the deck is cantilevered because the rim joist doesn't transfer load to the ground. However, won't joist hangers on the rim joist do the same job as blocking shown in the picture on oldfrt's post? They'll keep the joists from twisting and moving laterally.
 
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