Is this botched tile job within "industry standard"?
The tile contractor is stating that most of his work is within "industry standards". He loves to use that term. Nothing about it looks to be up to anything more than garbage standards to me. Just wanted a few opinions. Also, he's threatening a lien if not paid.
It's a guy I've used for a long time, and he's always been dead on perfect. Apparently, he subbed this to a crew who I've never seen before, and it turned out pretty bad I think. I know it's white tile and black grout, but I say it sucks. He's willing to do some "fixing", where he takes out a 2-3 tiles along the visible joint lines and lays them back. It doesn't make it "right", but it does minimize the problems. Not sure what I want to do.
Any thoughts? Is this in any way acceptable on any level? He's saying he will file a lien if we don't pay him, but it's going to cost more than we owe him to fix it correctly, and I don't really want to pay him anything. I say he'll be lucky if we don't sue him for the full cost of replacing plus our time and trouble.
It's a guy I've used for a long time, and he's always been dead on perfect. Apparently, he subbed this to a crew who I've never seen before, and it turned out pretty bad I think. I know it's white tile and black grout, but I say it sucks. He's willing to do some "fixing", where he takes out a 2-3 tiles along the visible joint lines and lays them back. It doesn't make it "right", but it does minimize the problems. Not sure what I want to do.
Any thoughts? Is this in any way acceptable on any level? He's saying he will file a lien if we don't pay him, but it's going to cost more than we owe him to fix it correctly, and I don't really want to pay him anything. I say he'll be lucky if we don't sue him for the full cost of replacing plus our time and trouble.
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That is Butt-Ugly...
Is it in a commercial kitchen? In residential no way, but on a commercial job, it is likely not a problem.
I would probe around the grout lines where the lines are thin, sanded grout might not be able to get full penetration in those tight lines.
Did he inform you of his decision to use a sub? is that allowed in your contract? You will need a lein release from both the tile guy and his sub upon payment.
Is it in a commercial kitchen? In residential no way, but on a commercial job, it is likely not a problem.
I would probe around the grout lines where the lines are thin, sanded grout might not be able to get full penetration in those tight lines.
Did he inform you of his decision to use a sub? is that allowed in your contract? You will need a lein release from both the tile guy and his sub upon payment.
Don't industry standards dictate that joints must be uniform?
you really had to ask if this is a good job?
No. I think it sucks. I just wanted to know how good I feel about not paying him for it.
brunothedog said:
That's horrible work . Tell him to fix whole job or he will see your lawyer . Give him chance so if you go to court you get more of leg up .
What does contract state .
That's my thought. It is in a light commercial job, and we mostly do residential. Didn't know if commercial was any different.
asevereid said:
To most tile guys that would suck... but I can't tell you how many sucky tile jobs I've seen in commercial... so if it's commercial, he could go around taking picks at different places and argue "industry standard" as there is no licensing standard...
Does an attorney need to be involved in order to get a lien removed. By that I mean, anyone can go file a lien. What is the process for saying hey, look at the pictures of this garbage work he's filing a lien for.
BTW, if his previous work was great, that's your standard of expectation, no?... :whistling
Show him some pics of his previous work and tell him, THIS is your expectation...
Show him some pics of his previous work and tell him, THIS is your expectation...
The only time I ever hear the term "industry standard" in this business is when people are trying to explain away garbage work. Industry standards are for the manufacturing industry. Workmanlike manner may have been the term he was looking for and that job certainly wasn't performed in a workmanlike manner.
Let him try and fix it. Keep things well documented.
Not saying accept the work, tho......
Lot's of lee way in commercial. Customer is good with it, you can be good with it... If It's "back of house" type work, things do slide a little more function before beauty.
Customer not happy, string up the tile guy- till it's done right.
Lot's of lee way in commercial. Customer is good with it, you can be good with it... If It's "back of house" type work, things do slide a little more function before beauty.
Customer not happy, string up the tile guy- till it's done right.
He needs to fix it. He can get it 80% better in a day or two. He won't like it, but if you have used him before, deep down he knows it is not acceptable to you. Even if you offer to work with him to get it to a point were it will fly. In the end it is "fudge able".... without everybody lawyering up. He really should own up to it though.
Don't ever lower your standards even if the client says nothing. You don't want your name attached to that tile job, you already know that..
Given he has a great track record with you, I would start with being empathetic to his situation. It sucks to be him right now. Showing some compassion may get him headed in the right direction.
At the same time I would be crystal clear about how it should look after his repair. He knows he needs to fix it but he will need the guidelines that will be acceptable.
Mediators and lawyers can stay out of it given you have a good history. You need to find the right things that get him turned around.
It always amazes me that's when things go bad there are guys that want to run from it. It can be such a great opportunity to show your true colors and solidify a relationship if you just get with the program and do the right thing. Short sighted people just can't see that far, I guess.
Given he has a great track record with you, I would start with being empathetic to his situation. It sucks to be him right now. Showing some compassion may get him headed in the right direction.
At the same time I would be crystal clear about how it should look after his repair. He knows he needs to fix it but he will need the guidelines that will be acceptable.
Mediators and lawyers can stay out of it given you have a good history. You need to find the right things that get him turned around.
It always amazes me that's when things go bad there are guys that want to run from it. It can be such a great opportunity to show your true colors and solidify a relationship if you just get with the program and do the right thing. Short sighted people just can't see that far, I guess.
Who suggested using that tile..?
It looks like 
. That being said he's a tile guy and knows that. He ain't happy either, it sucks not paying someone but just express what you have to pay to have it right and you'd rather work with him to make it right.
If you guys have a relationship than there is no reason to get lawyers involved, however, he doesn't need to know that. Don't let him get away with that kind of work, for him and all your other subs to know that you know.
I can see the separate sheets on my phone. He's probably embarrassed and just trying to justify something he's kicking himself in the ass for already and doesn't want the extra criticism. Be courteous and stern, but get it fixed.
. That being said he's a tile guy and knows that. He ain't happy either, it sucks not paying someone but just express what you have to pay to have it right and you'd rather work with him to make it right. If you guys have a relationship than there is no reason to get lawyers involved, however, he doesn't need to know that. Don't let him get away with that kind of work, for him and all your other subs to know that you know.
I can see the separate sheets on my phone. He's probably embarrassed and just trying to justify something he's kicking himself in the ass for already and doesn't want the extra criticism. Be courteous and stern, but get it fixed.
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