[MJW]

We get plenty of business also. Here we are the ones they call to fix leaky roofs. Do plenty of repair work after the storm chasers leave. We do all referrals also. No need to advertise.

It's funny too, like stonerenew said......everyone becomes a roofer when work is tight.

 

[johnk]

I agree with you about the mexicans and hacks, there are plenty of them especially now........That being said...yes it DOES take hundreds of squares to do a good job. If someone disagrees with that, they either have a simple house or they themselves are the hacks or scabs.

Or throw the guy on a flat commercial with a hundred protusions.Roofing is like a science and only experience will make you good at what you do.

 

[johnk]

haha its funny. Every guy out there who doesnt have a job becomes a roofer. Why? Because its not rocket science. I did the roof on my own house with no prior roofing experience. Guess What? No Leaks! and its been 5 years! Saved thousands of dollars too! There were a couple company's localy that were doing roofs in my neighborhood, so I had them leave estimates. 5,000? I dont think so. These guys had Mexican's working for them that didnt speak a word of english. Now how much experience do you think those guys had before swimming the river? Exactly. Point being? Are there hacks out there who screw stuff up? Of course...but it doesnt take doing "hundreds of roofs a year!" to do a good job.

Good for you,proud of you.I wouldnt hire you.:no:

 

[carlsguide]

The better way is to remove the old felt even if leaving it would not cause problems. If you're going to do a job do it right. It makes or breaks your reputation.

 

[Tom Struble]

haha its funny. Every guy out there who doesnt have a job becomes a roofer. Why? Because its not rocket science. I did the roof on my own house with no prior roofing experience. Guess What? No Leaks! and its been 5 years! Saved thousands of dollars too! There were a couple company's localy that were doing roofs in my neighborhood, so I had them leave estimates. 5,000? I dont think so. These guys had Mexican's working for them that didnt speak a word of english. Now how much experience do you think those guys had before swimming the river? Exactly. Point being? Are there hacks out there who screw stuff up? Of course...but it doesnt take doing "hundreds of roofs a year!" to do a good job.

dont belive it.Those guys speak plenty good english when they have too:shifty:

 

[MJW]

Like my dad says....

Like a cue ball......the harder you hit them, the better the English.

 

[StoneRenew]

The simple fact that the homeowner who started this thread was bothered enough to take a picture and take the time to post it on here, should answer everyone's question. Do you think this guy is going to recommend this company to his best friend or family members? I doubt it. Regardless of what business your in, if your proposal or estimate states something. You have to do it. Plain and simple.

 

[Grumpy]

Not being born here doesn't make you a hack. Being born here doesn't make you a craftsman.

In regards to doing it yourself, I'm glad it worked out. SHINGLING is simple. Flashing and detail work takes a brain. It's not extremely hard, but it takes patience and know how. That's what sets a craftsman apart from a hack. By the way, the difference between a good roofer and a bad roofer isn't apparent usually in the first 1 year. It usually takes 5 or 6 years for the little mistakes to become apparent.

I'm willing to bet I know quite a few roofers that could figure out how to refinish granite and marble. I mean afterall it's not rocket science is it? No it's a refinishing process, which I currently know nothing about but I bet requires a special polish compound and polishing tool. Can you do it faster then me? I'm sure you could. Could I figure it out if I wanted to? I'm sure I could.

 

[MrRoofer]

It seems clear there are plenty here who would prefer to sit on either side of the fence.

In this case specifically, looking at those pictures, do you really think there is going to be a problem with leaving that felt on? Seriously? Is the roof going to fail because of the extra felt? Is it going to leak because of the extra felt? If there is a hole in the roof under those new shingles big enough to warrant worry the OP would have noticed, and we could have a much more serious point of contention to be debating here.

The only thing I see is two layers of felt...no major warpings or dints in the newly applied shingles or felt to tell me there is a giant hole in the roof. With the mention of wind damage I would be a lot more concerned with the shingles staying on than an extra layer of felt.

With the old shiplap if there was a relatively small hole we would and still will just slam a flattened piece of step over it rather than go to the lumber yard for that perfectly matching piece of shiplap to cut in and replace a 6"x6" hole. That flattened piece of step is going to save the homeowner coin and its going to save the roofer the headache. I dont care what you markup a square foot of sheeting for profit, it's never going to be worth it to replace it when you can metalize it in 5 seconds flat for the same desired effect. Of course it's going to fail inspection but it sure as hell isn't going to leak or cause the shingles to fail prematurely . And if the roof caves in because that piece of step flashing wasn't strong enough, it's either because you just got 20 feet of snow overnight or pterodactyls are no longer extinct and are roosting on your roof (apparently they were a lot bigger/heavier than your average sparrow for example)...

Now when the hole gets bigger than a piece of flattened out piece of step, I say fix it with wood, and do it right :thumbsup:.

Honestly, structurally speaking my biggest issue is with lack of support around vent holes. I broke three ribs once when an area of sheeting around a poorly supported vent hole collapsed and my ribs saved fme from fixing the drywall inside. Yet how many guys go inside and frame-in vent holes? Haven't seen it yet let alone hear of it.

FTR I fail to see what Mexico has to do with this.

There comes a point where discussions get ridiculous, and this one is getting there. How about we close this and move on.

 

[Tom M]

The simple fact that the homeowner who started this thread was bothered enough to take a picture and take the time to post it on here, should answer everyone's question. Do you think this guy is going to recommend this company to his best friend or family members? I doubt it.

You are misreading this.... The poster is a long time poster here, a very good electrician with good knowledge of the many trades. He hired a referral that he knows. The felt just struck him as odd.

 

[Grumpy]

Mr Roofer I can not answer your questions of it would fail because of that felt. Would the felt cause it to fail? Possibly, but not likley. More likley the bad wood hidden beneatht he felt would cause it to fail. More likley the lack of ice shield not installed since you can't (or shouldn't)put ice shield over felt. Extra felt would cause it to fail in a bad ice damn.

 

[rbsremodeling]

It seems clear there are plenty here who would prefer to sit on either side of the fence.

In this case specifically, looking at those pictures, do you really think there is going to be a problem with leaving that felt on? Seriously? Is the roof going to fail because of the extra felt? Is it going to leak because of the extra felt? If there is a hole in the roof under those new shingles big enough to warrant worry the OP would have noticed, and we could have a much more serious point of contention to be debating here.

The only thing I see is two layers of felt...no major warpings or dints in the newly applied shingles or felt to tell me there is a giant hole in the roof. With the mention of wind damage I would be a lot more concerned with the shingles staying on than an extra layer of felt.

With the old shiplap if there was a relatively small hole we would and still will just slam a flattened piece of step over it rather than go to the lumber yard for that perfectly matching piece of shiplap to cut in and replace a 6"x6" hole. That flattened piece of step is going to save the homeowner coin and its going to save the roofer the headache. I dont care what you markup a square foot of sheeting for profit, it's never going to be worth it to replace it when you can metalize it in 5 seconds flat for the same desired effect. Of course it's going to fail inspection but it sure as hell isn't going to leak or cause the shingles to fail prematurely . And if the roof caves in because that piece of step flashing wasn't strong enough, it's either because you just got 20 feet of snow overnight or pterodactyls are no longer extinct and are roosting on your roof (apparently they were a lot bigger/heavier than your average sparrow for example)...

Now when the hole gets bigger than a piece of flattened out piece of step, I say fix it with wood, and do it right :thumbsup:.

Honestly, structurally speaking my biggest issue is with lack of support around vent holes. I broke three ribs once when an area of sheeting around a poorly supported vent hole collapsed and my ribs saved fme from fixing the drywall inside. Yet how many guys go inside and frame-in vent holes? Haven't seen it yet let alone hear of it.

FTR I fail to see what Mexico has to do with this.

There comes a point where discussions get ridiculous, and this one is getting there. How about we close this and move on.

What would have been so hard with the lazy bastards ripping up the old felt paper and checking to see that all the boards look ok, not felt ok while walking over them but actually checking them?

How much extra time would it have taken?

It is a lazy mans way out. Do it right or don't do it at all.

 

[StoneRenew]

No one mentioned Mexico here. We were talking about experience needed to do a roof properly. We mentioned hacks. Sad to say but most illegals who come here dont have much experience except picking strawberries in a field. So they fall into that category. Grumpy, I didnt just SHINGLE. I did a complete tear off. I also added a ridge vent that runs the entire length of the roof peak with an internal weather filter, and under eave venting, its the most efficient system you can install. I replaced rotted and damaged wood. I also flashed, valley's, my chimney, eave's, skylights, and ridges. Am I the best roofer or extremely experienced in that industry. By no means. My reply was to JohnK. It does not take hundreds or thousands of roofs to know how to do it properly. It takes basic knowledge in carpentry, confidense in ones self, and buying a book from Home Cheapo and doing a bit of research. I'm not trying to take away from any of you guys out there who make a living doing that. You bust your ass and work hard for your money. But for a guy who does nothing but roofing to tell another guy that it takes "hundreds of roofs a year to be a professional' didnt make sense to me. I agree that this thread is out of hand. I was just making a basic statement. Or opinion. If you dont like it thats fine. Not hurting my feelings. :no:

 

[MJW]

Good for you stonerenew!

There are many who think they do things right, it really doesn't mean anything. The problem I have is when people say it is easy or simple, and you are stupid to pay someone else to do it.

If it's so easy for some, why don't they have a full time business doing it????? Probably because it isn't so easy.

 

[MrRoofer]

Mr Grumpy I would not argue against your point of view. I hadn't actually thought about the I&W over the felt but very good point. I know of at least two instances in the last year where we have had I&W spec'd over felt and had to correct the people writing the specs.

In this case, the wood I do see looks pretty damn spiffy though, and regardless if the crew involved decided to tear up the old felt, if they are a bunch of hacks, ultimately I would rather they left it on .

My own experience here is that we have experienced a pretty massive boom by our own standards in the last decade. Meaning we have been left with a take what we can get approach when it comes to subs. In a lot of cases I would rather them leave the old flashing in for example, than have them replace it, because I know the guy before them was a better roofer, and more specifically, a better flasher (because we all know this is what seperates a good roofer from bad...the details), and we are better off with working with what is there than making new. It sucks but it is true. All of that is of course changing with our new and unimproved economy of course, but it is for the better as screwed up as it is.

What would have been so hard with the lazy bastards ripping up the old felt paper and checking to see that all the boards look ok, not felt ok while walking over them but actually checking them?

How much extra time would it have taken?

It is a lazy mans way out. Do it right or don't do it at all.

If it is in the contract then fine, by all means.

Otherwise, extra time is extra dollars, and if the contractor doesn't pay for it, then it doesn't get done. We don't use those cap nails here, but I can tell by lookin at em they would take a heck of a lot more time to remove with felt than felt with staples (I have never seen or heard of a wee staple remover on a roof yet, our secretary I think is not going to give hers up very easily), how much more I don't know, but everything has it's price. Pulling them out of old shiplap versus plywood versus OSB is a whole different cost in it's own right, if you want to get right technical. Nobody should work for free.

I think it comes down to a judgement call really. Even the best judgements are not always right though, regardless of how much experience or education goes into that judgement.

YMMV.

 

[tinner666]

There wasn't any felt on this roof when it was removed because of nails rusting off.
This roof looks fine to me.

 

[skyhook]

What would have been so hard with the lazy bastards ripping up the old felt paper and checking to see that all the boards look ok, not felt ok while walking over them but actually checking them?

How much extra time would it have taken?

It is a lazy mans way out. Do it right or don't do it at all.

I don't like walking on anything that could make me slip while I'm on the roof. If it was my roof, I would do my own sheathing inspection, before the inspector got there. The tear off crew didn't want to pull the ringshank nails, that's all.

 

[VAviaCo]

Take all the felt off so you can see the old rusty 7d nails that were hand driven 40 years ago and you can renail part or all of the ply with galvies.

No one's going to see this wood again for 50+ years and you just blew the chance to look at it.

It's about quality.

 

[willworkforbeer]

I did my share of residential shingle roofing when I was younger, saw a lot of different things but to this day I have no idea what tarpaper is for. Saw a lot of damage caused by it. *ducks head down*

 

[MJW]

Tarpaper's purpose it two things

1. keep the roof dry until it is shingled
2. prevent the shingles from sticking to the sheathing

The 3rd reason is in case of a blow off, but I don't think that happens much anymore.