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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am writing up an estimate for SA for the first time. I have never had to predrill decking before. I am writing up for two options, Ipe clips and color match face screws (no plugs). Can you guys give me a ballpark on sq.ft./hour in the field of the deck for each? Thank you for any help you can provide :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What you can do it for and what I can do it for will be total different.

No way to tell you how to handle the money.

JonMon www.deckmastersllc.com

I'm not looking for the money, I am looking for an average time on install in the field (middle of the deck not counting the outside edges that need to be face screwed and plugged)
 

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Particulate Filter
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Hire a drill monkey for a hundred bucks a day. Figure your typical time to build and cut then add five hundrdd bucks for the drill monkey or whatever. I would think one monkey could drill space and screw five hunded feet of decking a day assuming hes not working off a ladder or something.
 

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I've never used Ipe but I've heard people complain about the time it takes to put it on. Maybe take the time it would take to put on cedar decking and then double it?

Would the Camo system work on Ipe? I would invest in these Festool bits


I use them and they are super sharp.
 

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Hire a drill monkey for a hundred bucks a day. Figure your typical time to build and cut then add five hundrdd bucks for the drill monkey or whatever. I would think one monkey could drill space and screw five hunded feet of decking a day assuming hes not working off a ladder or something.
I can barely get 2 experienced carpenters to put down 400 in a day much less a stupid monkey.
 

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Talking Head
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Is the decking parallel? Joints in the field or are you picture framing it? What size decking?

Your best bet is to lay down a couple pieces of 2x6 or scrap decking and time yourself in predrill/countersinking the pieces and putting a screw in there. Add about 25% because ipe is a hell of a lot harder and rushing the drilling will result in a broken bit and stabbing the drill into your decking. You'll probably be pretty inefficient your first deck. Order the best quality ipe you can as it's brutal to straighten.

I'd look at either plugging it or using the Camo system. I don't do exposed screws, personally. The price on the upgrade doesn't add much to a SA deck.
 

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My limited experience leads me to beleive that the Camo system doesn't work well with ipe. There may have been some improvements since I tried the first generation.

Of course I also had complaints with the biscuit systems, though others seem to be OK with it.

I use the Headcote SS fastners with the smart bit or their plug system. 2 guys around 250 sq. ft. a day, but it really depends on lengths, layout, ect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Thanks guys. Its all parallel and 22' x 42' so there will be joints. It's 1x4. I'll plan it for 200sq ft a day for clips and 150 for face crewing without plugs. I hate the camo system and will never use it again. How are the plug installations handled? Just glued, tapped in and sanded down? Its low to the ground with only a couple rails on the ends so minimal notching and detail work. Does anyone have any experience with Advantage Lumber / Ipe Depot?
 

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John Hyatt
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I used ol Rob at Advantage with less than average results.

East Teak has been my supplier 15 years or so for South American lumber.

Plugging is the way I go for the no fastener showing/Craftsmen look. I order the 3/8'' plugs from East Teak as well. Install goes pretty fast with my Outfit using a forstner bit / 5/32'' predrill ( into the ipe only not into the pt frame ) ,glue in with TB 111, sand down with a 5'' orbital using the no hole pads.

Side Note >> installing ipe low to the ground requires cross ventilation under the frame.

JonMon www.deckmastersllc.com
 

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I just got off the phone with FastenMaster they tell me they make a gun clip for 5/4 IPE that works with the TC-G gun. I'm in the process of bidding 1400 square feet of IPE for a commercial lunch area. I'm going to try to use them. I'm sure if Greg Hartmann is looking at this maybe he can chime in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I used ol Rob at Advantage with less than average results.

East Teak has been my supplier 15 years or so for South American lumber.

Plugging is the way I go for the no fastener showing/Craftsmen look. I order the 3/8'' plugs from East Teak as well. Install goes pretty fast with my Outfit using a forstner bit / 5/32'' predrill ( into the ipe only not into the pt frame ) ,glue in with TB 111, sand down with a 5'' orbital using the no hole pads.

Side Note >> installing ipe low to the ground requires cross ventilation under the frame.

JonMon www.deckmastersllc.com
Thank you! Was it the quality of lumber from Advantage or the service?

There is a couple feet of space under the deck. Right now its blocked off (probably why the old deck rotted) and they are having me remove the panels and install lattice. Yes, I am prepared for rotted framing also. If I pull the old stuff up and the frame is good, I will be very happy. If not, I have an extra few days of work rebuilding it all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I just got off the phone with FastenMaster they tell me they make a gun clip for 5/4 IPE that works with the TC-G gun. I'm in the processor bidding 1400 square feet of IPE for a commercial lunch area. I'm going to try to use them. I'm sure if Gary Hartmann is looking at this maybe he can chime in?
Yes, I saw that and Gary talked about them in a few threads (I have done probably 10 searches and ready at least 25 threads so far for this project. This site and everyone on it are great and an invaluable resource). I will have to see what the price comes out to with 1x4 and hand drilling/screwing the clips in VS using TC-G clips and 5/4. If its close I would rather charge less in labor and put down 5/4 with the gun and not have to worry about getting a call back with the boards warping or cupping as much.
 

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John Hyatt
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Advantage was low quality and less than average service . I would not even think about using ipe depo.

Factoring in the cost of Ipe reskining is a bad idea 99% of the time.

J.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thank you. I'll see who else delivers to my area. They had great pricing due to a bulk discount and free shipping, but that only goes for another few days. We just got another 6" of snow today, so what we have on the ground will take a solid 2-3 weeks to melt and then another 2 weeks for the ground to dry enough to work on. So I will not be ordering it that soon
 

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redwood said:
My limited experience leads me to beleive that the Camo system doesn't work well with ipe. There may have been some improvements since I tried the first generation. Of course I also had complaints with the biscuit systems, though others seem to be OK with it. I use the Headcote SS fastners with the smart bit or their plug system. 2 guys around 250 sq. ft. a day, but it really depends on lengths, layout, ect.
plug and screw for me a our 180 ft a day,idont like the hidden fasten systems
 

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John Hyatt said:
I used ol Rob at Advantage with less than average results. East Teak has been my supplier 15 years or so for South American lumber. Plugging is the way I go for the no fastener showing/Craftsmen look. I order the 3/8'' plugs from East Teak as well. Install goes pretty fast with my Outfit using a forstner bit / 5/32'' predrill ( into the ipe only not into the pt frame ) ,glue in with TB 111, sand down with a 5'' orbital using the no hole pads. Side Note >> installing ipe low to the ground requires cross ventilation under the frame. JonMon www.deckmastersllc.com
here here
 

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I'll second the bad idea putting ipe down on an old frame. Bad for customer and bad for the contractor who will break lots of smartbits.
 
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