Looks like you should be doing it jonmon's way (screw and bung) if you don't have the groove. Anything that is worthwhile doing (that is not screwing and plugging) needs a groove, to cut a groove now without a four headed or six headed moulder is madness and will take just as long as screw and plug.

Starborn makes a cool plugging device that requires no cutting off of bungs and saves a boat load of time. I believe they make and sell the plugs as well.

Otherwise black ipe clips all the way for me, if you want speed than tcg.

 

Looks like you should be doing it jonmon's way (screw and bung) if you don't have the groove. Anything that is worthwhile doing (that is not screwing and plugging) needs a groove, to cut a groove now without a four headed or six headed moulder is madness and will take just as long as screw and plug.

Starborn makes a cool plugging device that requires no cutting off of bungs and saves a boat load of time. I believe they make and sell the plugs as well.

Otherwise black ipe clips all the way for me, if you want speed than tcg.

I just used the Starborn system on 900 sq ft of IPE and it is a slick system.

My guys had a bit of trouble breaking the pilot bit so we just chucked up a bit in a separate drill and away we went. Doing this also allowed us to keep from drilling into the framing.
The real time saver was in the sanding of the plugs, which was minimal, due to the fact that most of the plugs sit flush with decking.
This system uses a proprietary plug, which is 5/16" diameter, and only available from Starborn, they don't like to sell the plugs separate but they will.

This job came at the perfect time to compare the starborn system with a regular screw and plug method. We had just finished another deck using IPE extreme hidden fasteners which had a fair amount of border boards that needed to be screwed and plugged. The speed using the starborn system was noticeable.

Hope this helps.

 

I prefer the extreme Ipe clips. It is going to suck cutting a slot in them with a router though ( lot of time).

As much as I hate the the ones that go under and screw up into the board, that may be a good option, if you have the room.

 

Screwing/pluging goes a lot faster with a crew.

The one part systems do not work for me near as well as four separate operations. forstner bit, predrill, gule in plug, sand.

The OP systems clog up too fast, get dull too fast,don't provide a clean hole for the plug.

Buy the right size plug for the job,fastening South American lumber requires a sharp forstner bit plan on having a few on hand carbide tips are not worth the money, sand the plug right after install,fill the hole with the plug right away. Do not dwell in one place when sanding the plug down with the orbital feather it out.

With my Crew of three pluging goes faster than the clips, costs less money/time, is a great up sale, and looks really good. This is along with the given all my people have been doing this for a number of years.

In addition the clips are not " hidden " at all when you look down you still see the clip and the screw.

JonMon www.deckmastersllc.com

 

Before we could get boards with grooves in them, we would cut the slot for the Ipe Clip with a biscuit cutter. It takes a lot of time, we usually have 3 or 4 guys on an install.

 

before we could get boards with grooves in them, we would cut the slot for the ipe clip with a biscuit cutter. It takes a lot of time, we usually have 3 or 4 guys on an install.

why the 5/4? Are you spanning 24" oc?
Why not get it grooved?

1x6 grooved with fasteners should be just under 10sf.

Are you looking for some self inflicting pain.

 

Jon, good info on the plugging, I know I couldn't screw and plug as fast as I can clip but I'm accustomed and set up for one method and only use about 100-300 plugs per job depending on size.

I would add one good thing about using a 3/8" plug is you can use a full size head screw which provides more surface area of hold down than any trim screw.

I'm not sure how long its been since you've seen/used the clips but they started coming standard with black head screw and black anodized insert and are hidden very well in the shadow lines now on the extreme series. I found this out on my last install, add the larger head screw (even though all my excess tips because i like the Bosch tips from t10 to t15) and I am now convinced it is the best for the price point.

 

Deck, I got called out on an ipe clip repair. They did everything wrong. Jamed up the decking, low to the ground with 0 ventalation, one clip on the many butt joints, no adhesine it goes on and on in places the ipe buckled up at a 45 degree. Real mess on around 1800 sq ft.

I did notice the color change and the larger head screws ipe clip provides. Good idea. But still I see the clip anyway. The money,for me anyway, is still better with S/P. Better look too IMO. And it's a sure thing no possible mistake.

J.

 

Deck, I got called out on an ipe clip repair. They did everything wrong. Jamed up the decking, low to the ground with 0 ventalation, one clip on the many butt joints, no adhesine it goes on and on in places the ipe buckled up at a 45 degree. Real mess on around 1800 sq ft.

I did notice the color change and the larger head screws ipe clip provides. Good idea. But still I see the clip anyway. The money,for me anyway, is still better with S/P. Better look too IMO. And it's a sure thing no possible mistake.

J.

unfortunately stupid can't be repaired. Hacks come out thinking "its just lumber" and people like us get called to fix it. Agreed on s/p is as sure as it gets. I personally like the look the best (I'm an avid fisherman so think boats) of plugs, that being said i could not imagine doing it fast enough to make money.

I was told trade secrets arent found in reading, they're discovered in the field of failure, they're not made but kept... I always thought that to be good advice, kept my head up when i sucked and humbled my opinion of the successful.

When plugging i use the Diablo forstner bit and slow drying west system epoxy with syringe ( adds a ton of time i know even with the specified pumps), use different drills so i never change bits and it still takes forever. What are you using for adhesive with the plug? I can't do like you said cause i have to have enough drilled to make use of certain amount of epoxy and what do you do about any overfill that might come out before sending.

 

I can not even think about using epoxy ! Man, that must be a mess.

Tightbond 111.

Don't hydro the stuff when you tap the plug in. Use just enough not too much. Sanding right away leaves a light coat of dust on the joint.

Epoxy, I can't belive it.

J.

 

We are going to screw and plug. Just needed to talk the homeowner into it. We are going with 5/4 because everything on this house is overkill. Framing is 12" oc. This is a very nice home and we want to try and avoid any issues down the road. Plus, we set the siding up for 1" decking.
Thanks all!

 

We are going to screw and plug. Just needed to talk the homeowner into it. We are going with 5/4 because everything on this house is overkill. Framing is 12" oc. This is a very nice home and we want to try and avoid any issues down the road. Plus, we set the siding up for 1" decking.
Thanks all!

12 o.c with 5/4 " board - you might as well pour cement

 

what about camo hidden fastening?

 

junk and way to much time.

 

this is the keeper: 2) tiger claw tc-g by fasten masters

see this: http://www.contractortalk.com/f50/ipe-vs-other-35538/index2/#post1768210

 

don't you have a close up picture how this tiger claw fastening works?

 

The TC-g's dont hold with SA hardwoods.

I dont need more pm's about this issue either, it cost me two days of my time to fix it. They work great for man made stuff, but don't have enough holding power for hardwood.

Ipe clips have never let me down.

 

the tc-g's dont hold with sa hardwoods.

I dont need more pm's about this issue either, it cost me two days of my time to fix it. They work great for man made stuff, but don't have enough holding power for hardwood.

Ipe clips have never let me down.

yuuuuuuup!!!

 

but with Ipe clips you need to open up the entire deck if there is a board showing a defect in the middle??

 

Nope, you have to know what your doing putting it down. Either cut the board out and plug one side back is the easiest method but certainly not the only method, look up a search on here.

 

[QUOTE
2) tiger claw tc-g by fasten masters
Thanks so much.[/QUOTE]

Hasnt FastenMaster switched to/or is now making this clip (TC-4S) specifically for hardwood/SA? not the TC-G
Im not sure, never used it, just saw on they're website,

http://www.fastenmaster.com/details/product/tc-4s-hardwood-ipe-hidden-deck-fastener.html

 

[QUOTE
2) tiger claw tc-g by fasten masters
Thanks so much.

Hasnt FastenMaster switched to/or is now making this clip specifically for hardwood/SA? not the TC-G
Im not sure, never used it, just saw on they're website,

http://www.fastenmaster.com/details/product/tc-4s-hardwood-ipe-hidden-deck-fastener.html[/QUOTE]

I THINK YOU ARE REFERRING TO IQ THEY'RE DISCONTINUED

 

FastenMaster has 3 hidden fasteners for exotic hardwoods.

TC-4S for non grooved 3/4" decking less than 4" in width
TC-120 for 3/4" decking up to 6" in width. (use a TC 120 slot cutter to cut groove at joist)
TC-G for grooved decking measuring at least 1 inch in thickness. Or use a TC-G slot cutter to groove at joist on non-grooved boards.

The TC-G can be installed pneumatically.

Let me know if I can send you any clips to try or get you more information.

Greg Hartmann
FastenMaster/Tiger Claw
ghhartmann@olyfast.com
860 984-9033

 

Hey Greg thanks for the clarification.

When are you getting self tapper screw / hide away clips?

 

Looked at a 600 sq. ft. tigerwood deck that a HO built about 10 years ago using tigerclaw hidden fasteners. I was not only impressed with the fine job the HO did building the deck but, also how well the TC fasteners held up over the years.