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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have my doubts about using a 4'' weeping tile on the inside as I would have to pack it in 8'' of gravel to get my 1/8'' slope every ft over 70ft. Does anyone here use a different product?
 

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Interior drain tile can be installed level and usually is from a practical standpoint. Water always seeks its own level. It is not rocket science and is very functional as long as the perforation are at 4:00 and 8:00 o'clock. - Especially for pvc, but not so for the flexible corrugated.

In many ways, interior drain tile is better than exterior since it removes water from under a slab and reduces the upward hydrostatic pressure than cause cracks. If you has water outside a wall the water will move through the soil under the footing and be removed 24/7, since water around a basement does not accumulate as fast as the rain comes down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
concretemasonry said:
Interior drain tile can be installed level and usually is from a practical standpoint. Water always seeks its own level. It is not rocket science and is very functional as long as the perforation are at 4:00 and 8:00 o'clock. - Especially for pvc, but not so for the flexible corrugated. In many ways, interior drain tile is better than exterior since it removes water from under a slab and reduces the upward hydrostatic pressure than cause cracks. If you has water outside a wall the water will move through the soil under the footing and be removed 24/7, since water around a basement does not accumulate as fast as the rain comes down.
Thanks for your reply! The weeping tile I have is perforated through out, you could say around the clock. So I will be installing it level with a slight pitch towards the sump pit.
 

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The perforated part is the bottom. The solid part is the top.
We'll have to agree to disagree.

Edit: Fair amount of discussion on-line about it, with opinions on both sides. Here's a discussion that suggests each may have an appropriate use: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Building-Homes-Extensions-2333/2010/3/Drain-tile.htm. At least one other site made the same argument.

The plastic ones that I use have a fairly small non-perforated area (maybe 45º) and even with the solid part down, the holes seem very close to the bottom.

The distinction, when people make it, is whether you're dealing with a high water table or water coming from above. Food for thought, but I'll probably just keep doing it my way in any case.:jester:
 

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We prefer outside to inside solutions and consider inside systems more of an insurance system. Holes up if heavy flows are expected and holes down if moderate flows are expected sometimes we even put holes in with a die grinder so we have them top and bottom. Smooth pipe is best. Pipe sock over the pipe to keep fines out, use 2 45 fittings separated by a foot long piece of pipe at the corners so that if jetting or cleaning is ever needed it can be done (short radius 90's suck) And leave a cleanout to the system in several spots as well. And grade is important because most systems have very little flow and if it stays in one spot with holes at the bottom it can pond and wick up into the concrete or drywall. But most important every job is different and you have to plan based on the job itself.
 

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We prefer outside to inside solutions and consider inside systems more of an insurance system. Holes up if heavy flows are expected and holes down if moderate flows are expected sometimes we even put holes in with a die grinder so we have them top and bottom. Smooth pipe is best. Pipe sock over the pipe to keep fines out, use 2 45 fittings separated by a foot long piece of pipe at the corners so that if jetting or cleaning is ever needed it can be done (short radius 90's suck) And leave a cleanout to the system in several spots as well. And grade is important because most systems have very little flow and if it stays in one spot with holes at the bottom it can pond and wick up into the concrete or drywall. But most important every job is different and you have to plan based on the job itself.
+1 on the cleanouts. Lots of them.
 

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We prefer outside to inside solutions and consider inside systems more of an insurance system. Holes up if heavy flows are expected and holes down if moderate flows are expected sometimes we even put holes in with a die grinder so we have them top and bottom. Smooth pipe is best. Pipe sock over the pipe to keep fines out, use 2 45 fittings separated by a foot long piece of pipe at the corners so that if jetting or cleaning is ever needed it can be done (short radius 90's suck) And leave a cleanout to the system in several spots as well. And grade is important because most systems have very little flow and if it stays in one spot with holes at the bottom it can pond and wick up into the concrete or drywall. But most important every job is different and you have to plan based on the job itself.
I'm guessing the O.P. is talking about this project:
http://www.contractortalk.com/f4/my-basement-apartment-reno-143163/#post1917817

Pictures in post 1
 

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Interesting job! Lots of things come into play with it all excavated, thermal barrier choices for the new slab, infloor heating etc. From a waterproofing standpoint is there any water intrusion before and any since the dig down? Leaks if any from the walls or the water table rising? Like I said every job is different. I like his pics.
 

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The general consensus is that the holes go on the bottom half for both residential and engineering applications.

The purpose of the perforated pipe is to lower the general water table in the soil continuously and reduce sort term pressures on walls and slabs by draining and allowing the soil to absorb the short term water that is usually a result of poor drainage. They rarely will run close to full, but the holes on the bottom half provide the greatest amount of long term drainage. Obviously, a short term catastrophe would provide enough water to flush out and minor debris. It is a continuous water "vacuum cleaner".

The miracle "socks" are really not effective because they clog from concentrating filtering area that is subjected to high water velocities. A proper drain tile installation should have the filter fabric between the native soil and proper granular fill (watever it is called by local terms) to provide a good flow to perforated pipe that is sitting on at least 2" of granular fill and surrounded by at least 8" of fill on the outside of the pipe that has an invert elevation below the bottom of a footing. - It is a reliable, steady long term drainage system and not a quick "patch" for later errors.

A friend on mine built over 3000 homes and vowed to never have a complaint about a "wet basement" because most of his homes incorporated a finished living area. Every home was built with both interior and exterior and interior drain tile as a standard construction item because it was cheap insurance. He also pre-cut fexible 3/4" vinyl tube to drain the cores of block into the drain tile area that reduced the problems with any short-term storms or landscaping mistake. When you do it right in the beginning it is "dirt" cheap and effective.
 

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Bob+ Cuda, School me on why holes should be up?
http://www.pipelife-jetstream.com/us/Pipe-Life.fullcat.pdf

Page 27, diagram 3 is what I do - holes up, solid down. This is the only manufacturer's recommendation I could find on-line. Plenty of C.T., DIY talk, mostly holes down, some it doesn't matter, some it depends, and a few holes up.

What will I do going forward? Keep an open mind and adapt to the situation, I suppose. If I use pipe with perforations missing on only a 60º degree sweep, then as in diagram 3. If I find myself with pipe with other hole configurations I'll go with diagrams 1 and 2, holes on the bottom. I'm glad you raised the question.

- Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks all for the attention and much appreciated advice!!!

Sorry I've been missing on this thread as I have been soaking up the sun down in Florida (when it isn't 32 degrees F).

I have just figured out my wifi here at the house I'm staying at.

When I get back at the construction of my basement apartment renovation I will be

-dropping the plumbing to allow for a lower floor (which was the point of the underpinning).
-installing the delta board and putting in the 3 in weeping tile, it was 4 but I'm going to use 3 now so I can have a little slope towards the sump pump. Yes the pipe has slots open around the entire pipe.
- installing 4 in of gravel 2 in of ship lapped blue styrofoam, tuck taping the seams.
- installing the rebar grids with an in floor hydronic heating system and pouring a 4 in pad of concrete which I will later stain to give it a cool look.

Then it's simply framing, electrical, more plumbing, etc etc etc

Again I appreciate all the comments!! I will update as I go.
 

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I have read more specs. requiring holes down than up,the pipe can be laid almost dead level,remember the stone bed is very important,it also works to carry the water. As far as were to place the pipe in or out,if I only installed one pipe it would definitely be on the exterior. What sense does it make to invite the water in only to figure a way to pump it back out. Two systems,one exterior one interior is probably the best approach.

Also,you can keep the black roll up "slinky" pipe in the supply yard. Give me some good SDR #35 and PLENTY of clean outs.
.
 

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When I dried in my basement this past spring I put the holes down per the manufacturers specs. They didn't mention cleanouts, but I put some in anyway (I AIN'T digging it back up :no:)
 

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I wouldn't worry about hole location so much. I put them down just because thats what I was taught. Put plenty of CLEAN stone under and around the pipe and the water won't even get into the pipe except in heavy flow situations. Forget the rolled up junk. Sdr 35 is nice but you can go go a bit cheaper and use the white with black liner pipe. The roll pipe is a project to set somewhat level or pitched. Clean outs and 45 sweeps are a good idea. Clean stone and filter fabric are very important.
 
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